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2nl Zoom - KQo OTB. Multiway pot, I flop 2 pair.

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  • 2nl Zoom - KQo OTB. Multiway pot, I flop 2 pair.

    UTG - I have a meger sample of 29 hands on this guy his stats are 32/14/0 with an AF 1.0. Not much I know but something is better than nothing. No info on the blinds but I do have the CO marked as a loose passive player although I can't remember why (only 9 hands on him). PokerStars Zoom Hand #85004414438: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2012/08/20 22:17:57 WET [2012/08/20 17:17:57 ET] Table 'Halley' 6-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: Croyd93 ($2 in chips) Seat 2: rickh56 ($1.89 in chips) Seat 3: miha142 ($2.03 in chips) Seat 4: ElMariachiXX ($2.23 in chips) Seat 5: willsmyth7 ($1.81 in chips) Seat 6: marius691 ($3.78 in chips) rickh56: posts small blind $0.01 miha142: posts big blind $0.02 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Croyd93 [Qd Kh] ElMariachiXX: raises $0.02 to $0.04 willsmyth7: folds marius691: calls $0.04 Croyd93: calls $0.04 rickh56: calls $0.03 miha142: calls $0.02 *** FLOP *** [Qc 3h Ks] rickh56: bets $0.06 miha142: calls $0.06 ElMariachiXX: raises $0.18 to $0.24 marius691: folds Croyd93:..........?????? (Can't get the hand replayer working so back to old school HH) Preflop I don't really like 3-betting, Firstly if I get 4-bet I have to fold and I like playing in position. Also I will probably fold out the UTG's worse holdings and I want to try and keep the fish in the CO in the pot. 5 to the flop which isn't ideal but then kaboom! I flop two pair and I have the BTN great. By the time the action is on me there has been a bet a call and a raise and the fish has unfortunately folded. A few things to note. The board isn't particularly scary as far as draws go, there is a possible OESD and maybe some random gutshots. I'm manily weighting both blinds ranges towards draws and 1 pair hands. The UTG raiser has a pretty strong range with the line he took; he will most likely play strong TP hands and AA this way, but also sets are in his range. So I can: 1)Call - If I call I will keep the UTG raisers range as wide as possible, also if I call then the blinds will get a very good price so will likely come along. However by giving them a good price I am allowing them a +EV spot to call with any draws they may hold. 2)Raise - If I raise he could shove which puts me in a pretty bad spot as his line is very strong. He may spaz out and shove 1 pairhands that I beat, however I'm not entirely convinced he will shove 1 pair hands to a raise. He will most likely shove all sets and he could also have the same 2 pair as me which he may shove. By raising I am making sure that I do not give a correct price to anyone on a draw. But a major disadvantage of raising is that I scare away action from worse hands as my line looks so strong. So what what is the best option raise or call...? Thanks for any help. Oliver umbup:
    Last edited by Croyd93; Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:29 AM.
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  • #2
    Hey Oliver I think this is a great spot to raise for value. A few points: Someone still in the pot who didn't raise can continue in the pot with made hands that are worse, AK, AA most notably, but also K3s. Either player can still continue with AJ/AT/JT. If we raise we allow them to make a larger mistake. The key is to not make our flop raise so big that it shuts them out of the pot. That's why I like .55 as opposed to something larger or a shove. If someone wakes up with KK, QQ, or 33 in this spot it is just going to be unlucky for us I think. At these stakes a lot of our profit is going to be about getting value from our big hands, and fast playing them is often the way to do it, particularly when action is multiway and players will be reticent to let go of second best hands or draws. Hope you scooped a monster here . If you just called and there was a turn to play feel free to post it below umbup: Best Gareth


    • #3
      Hi Gareth,

      Would playing J10 if the button flats or raise be a mistake in this spot?

      It is possible I think for UTG to min raise pre Ks or Qs or even 3s and the raise does smell, he is only raising 14% although over a small sample.

      Would you still play the hero's hand as suggested if your read was weighted towards a set?




      • #4
        JT is in a tricky spot on this board once the action has been reopened. Few problems JT has: Can't rely on the action not continuing on the flop, can't rely on being freerolled by a made hand and another JT, doesn't block any king or queen cards that block big hands like KQ, KK, QQ which want to get all-in on the flop. So it is often best to fold JT in this spot knowing that the flop will end up all in somewhat frequently. If we could know that no one will lose their mind with JT here then actually getting all in on the flop, say 3 way, would not be that awesome anyways. Let's take a look at why:

        Board: Qh Ks 3d

        equity win tie pots won pots tied
        Hand 0: 17.497% 17.50% 00.00% 158 0.00 { KcQc }
        Hand 1: 54.153% 54.15% 00.00% 489 0.00 { 3h3s }
        Hand 2: 28.350% 28.35% 00.00% 256 0.00 { JhTd }

        When Hero has KQ however, it is very hard for KK or QQ to be out there. Hero also has 4 clean outs against 33 with KQ, which, while not great, is better than nothing. If our read is very heavily weighted to sets because we know something about one of the players (like he would only get all-in with very strong hands), then our play is to fold facing the bet, call, and raise, as opposed to calling. Calling in this spot is a type of compromise play between folding and raising, and while there are times calling to keep people and action in, I wouldn't say this is one of them per se, as we risk losing value from AK/AA/JT on future streets.


        • #5
          I actually decided to raise, often when undecided between an agressive or passive line I default to the more aggressive line (something which may be a leak... ) Couldn't get it to embed properly, the link to the whole hand is below... However I think I may have raised a little too big. Another hypothetical question, but if the villain were to shove to my raise how should I procede? Is he really shoving any hands that I beat? Thanks for the help. Oliver umbup:
          Last edited by Croyd93; Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:03 PM.
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