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those danged notes

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  • those danged notes

    One of the biggest changes when i make notes is Tags changing to Passive players,

    so just wondering at what ponit is the difference between a Passive player and an aggressive player?


    Grade b
    I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

    13 Time Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    Wow, I'm so tempted to say something about passive agression, but JWK might frown upon that ...

    Comment


    • #3
      When I cared about tracking stats, I used the percentage of PFR to VPIP. 25% and below I considered passive. Above 25% to 50% was neutral and above 50% was aggressive. I found the best success about 75% with a full table and not being short stacked.

      Remember: "Raise more than call and fold more than raise." -- former PSO Dean Al SPath

      Comment


      • #4
        ty Trumping Joe,

        that makes sense i will look at that. What if a player has stats of 4/4 I have them marked as agressive rather than passive just becase tehy are only betting when they have good hand rather than playing hand passively

        Grade b

        **deleted comment**
        Last edited by CannonLee; Wed Aug 08, 2012, 07:20 AM. Reason: flame war
        I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

        13 Time Bracelet Winner


        Comment


        • #5
          Hey B, as you know I do not make player notes,

          My reason for this is not just a change in styles, but more consideration for what mood the player is in.

          Suppose you make notes on what you think to be a laggy donk player,

          The next time you meet up you thiink hes a donk from notes, however this time the guy/girl is sober....

          etc etc, can you see my point.

          We can not see the opps, as with live play, where you know if the player is looking tired etc..

          Make visual notes B, watching every player every move on every occasion,

          I.e stop multitabling it is not a good thing
          Last edited by holdemace486; Wed Aug 08, 2012, 04:42 PM. Reason: typo

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Holdemace,

            How do you know if a player is drunk of just bad?

            Grade b
            I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

            13 Time Bracelet Winner


            Comment


            • #7
              Hi B, we could never truly know,

              We also could never know if that player we are playing is even that player.

              They could be out on the town and let their kids on for all we know.

              This is why I stress in saying just watch it,and watch whats happening, on that given occasion.

              Previous reads for example of some1 who is on a tilt and the next time you meet they got their a-game on.

              Be weary B, dont rely on player notes 100% unless you have lots and lots of games against them to judge them.

              Comment


              • #8
                so are you saying once you have lots of games to judge someone you make a physical note?

                Don't you find starting from scratch every session to be a pain?

                Grade b
                I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

                13 Time Bracelet Winner


                Comment


                • #9
                  No b, if you use tracker software and hud make sure you use how many games and not how many hands you have played, but how many times you have seen this player.

                  hope you follow that mate

                  And no , I find it it easy to get a read by just watching B, I mostly do not remember who I have played, but occasionly remember a name or a pic.

                  I watch what is happening in the game I am playing, watching each person as it goes around.

                  Looking for time tells, bet tells, card tells, limpers, etc I have loads I look for that just helps.

                  Like you would with live play B,

                  I can win but the concentration level is immense to do it all the time, thats what its about B, those who pay the most attention, full on concentration like a chess game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There is an advantage on taking notes but i dont bother for some of the same reasons holdemace has stated. Notes can be bad in some spots. I try to get reads just from the action i see in that game and stack sizes the dynamics of the table etc. Dont get me wrong notes are good if used correctly and i would use them if i played higher stakes online.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grade b View Post
                      ty Trumping Joe,

                      that makes sense i will look at that. What if a player has stats of 4/4 I have them marked as agressive rather than passive just becase tehy are only betting when they have good hand rather than playing hand passively

                      Grade b
                      There will always be exception to any rule and those cases are handled individually. An aggressive ultra-nit is fairly exploitable on deep money as they tend to get married to there hands so they are great candidates to set mine or play suited connectors and other implied odds hands against.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Date all your notes, that helps a lot. No one is saying that notes from 2 months ago are going to help you, but you gotta start somewhere. My notes are constantly evolving as I observe more and more games.

                        The competition is tough out there, you have to take advantage of any edge you can get. Knowing that your opponent might open shove any Ace can be a huge advantage.

                        Bracelet Winner


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
                          Hey B, as you know I do not make player notes,

                          My reason for this is not just a change in styles, but more consideration for what mood the player is in.

                          Suppose you make notes on what you think to be a laggy donk player,

                          The next time you meet up you thiink hes a donk from notes, however this time the guy/girl is sober....

                          etc etc, can you see my point. What if they're on LSD and they're peaking? Do you have a read for that you can share? I think I've been up against players who are in the past but I'm not sure. I just know that peeps who seem to be tripping balls kick my butt everytime.

                          We can not see the opps, as with live play, where you know if the player is looking tired etc..

                          Make visual notes B, watching every player every move on every occasion, Visual notes? Like what,their avatar?

                          I.e stop multitabling it is not a good thing
                          Says you... Please don't project what you cannot do as the rule for everyone else. Thank you.

                          Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
                          Hi B, we could never truly know,

                          We also could never know if that player we are playing is even that player.

                          They could be out on the town and let their kids on for all we know. Are you saying that you have done this? Just wondering?

                          This is why I stress in saying just watch it,and watch whats happening, on that given occasion.

                          Previous reads for example of some1 who is on a tilt and the next time you meet they got their a-game on.

                          Be weary B, dont rely on player notes 100% unless you have lots and lots of games against them to judge them. I agree with this. Reads trump notes and notes gathered over a large sample trump notes gathered over smaller samples.
                          Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
                          No b, if you use tracker software and hud make sure you use how many games and not how many hands you have played, but how many times you have seen this player.

                          hope you follow that mate Um,no. Use all three actually.

                          And no , I find it it easy to get a read by just watching B, I mostly do not remember who I have played, but occasionly remember a name or a pic. So now you're saying you DON'T take notes?

                          I watch what is happening in the game I am playing, watching each person as it goes around.

                          Looking for time tells, bet tells, card tells, limpers, etc I have loads I look for that just helps. Uh,yeah. Those are tells. They should be a part of your NOTES. Just watch for people who may "false flag" you...


                          Like you would with live play B, This AIN'T live. It ain't Memorex. It's online poker. Same rules,same goals,DIFFERENT game in many ways.

                          I can win but the concentration level is immense to do it all the time, thats what its about B, those who pay the most attention, full on concentration like a chess game.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Strange mox how you were compelled to pull my post apart.

                            Have i left my kids on my poker when I go out, wow, at 4 and 5 that would be impressive to say the least.
                            No mox, no one but me uses my account, but I bet there are many who do let others on their accounts.

                            And no I do not write notes, there is no point in my eyes at the lower stakes.

                            And Isd, lol probably is players on here,but again with not visualy seeing the player we will never know.

                            AS to visual notes, its visual notes per game, my reads are then, the present, not the past.

                            Players improve and all sorts.

                            Now and again I reconize a name, and normally remember or within a few hands remember the player.

                            So on and so on.

                            Hope i missed nothing there mox, and curiously how come I have not seen you in pso events?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Alright, the old hedgehog would like to put in his wooden nickel regarding notes.




                              First thing I did when I discovered this feature was come up with general catagories, such as maniac, always raises, or very aggressive. If I run into a player that meets the criteria, I color code him. Depending on the time and my feeling, I'll add some note. For example, the person I labled a maniac might do that if they have two royal cards.

                              Its the subsequent time that comes into play in this discussion. Those players with tracking software have an advantage since the software tracks these things far more efficiently than a person can. I'm thinking the better you become using such tracking software, the better the notes and reads.

                              Are such second meetings helped by such notes? I use the notes as an early warning system, not a racial profile thing. However, if I labled a person "any ace wins," and they are playing that way in this game, I'll add a note that reads "did this in X games." The higher the number represented by X, the more relience I have on my read.

                              Like you said, you don't know if the person had a particularly bad day when you first met them. That note about his aggression might have been from the day he kept hitting high pockets or perfect flops. Today, he's not getting anything above group 5. That'll put a crimp in his aggression.

                              What I'm saying in a very round about way is that notes are an aid, not something carved in stone. Use what you have as a guide, but be ready to react to changing circumstances. No two situations in poker are ever exactly alike. Judgment is necessary.


                              As a final note, let me also add that after some 350+ games, I have notes on maybe five players. I have maybe a hundred color coded, but I haven't met all of them a second or third time. Some of my notes are of a personal nature, such as "trash talker - very insulting." They help me keep his comments in perspective if and when I meet them again.
                              Last edited by Cairn Destop; Thu Aug 09, 2012, 05:10 PM. Reason: last comment added

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