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10NL FR All-in call mind wave

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  • 10NL FR All-in call mind wave

    Hey all, Got me into this hand, and not sure if this is the best way to play it. In the end it was sad to see I had won it but it must be value long run ofcourse :-) Is it wise to call about 40BB with medium pockets in three handed pot? The initial raiser is very tight, the button player I had hardly any info on as it was the 4th hand I ever played with him and the BB had stats like 25/17 over 12 hands. So not that much info. I expected at least one must have a made hand before the flop. I did call the 4x to see the flop that line should be fine I think. Somehow I think my fold was right as i'm the underdog for lots of cards. thanks
    Bracelet Winner

  • #2
    Hi ferdyr.

    I think your pre flop fold here is fine. Having so few hands on the first 40BB shover, AND having a caller of that shove who is hardly a maniac (27/17 is a bit LAG, but nothing near maniacal for full ring) means you are quite likely facing at least 2 overs, if not a better pp and a couple overs. You need about 28% to 30% equity, and are pretty likely to be down around 20% or less, so a fold is fine. To have the right equity, you'd need to be pretty sure BOTH opp's are on unpaired overs (and sharing 1 over) to make this expensive call +eV in my opinion.

    As for the flat of the initial raise...

    Given that the EP raiser is "very tight", and given the effective stack size between you and him (~$4 effective behind), I do NOT like a flat here at all. A flat implies you are going to set mine TT, and the money is simply not there to do so very effectively. I think I would have prefered a 3bet pre, with an eye towards folding to a 4bet, or an immediate fold instead.

    The best you can hope for HU vs a tight EP raiser is a race when you have TT here. There will be at least 1 over to your pp (without you flopping a set) often enough, and the money will be shallow enough, you are going to find it quite difficult to fade a C Bet if you do not flop a set. As such you want to 3bet in hopes that the tight opp might CHECK a flop that misses overs, and/or checks better pp if an Ace flops. the only way you'll rep an Ace in position well here is if you've 3bet pre.

    Personally, I'd find a 3bet to around $1 to $1.20 to go pretty committing on this depth of money though, and with $2.40 in the pot and only around $3.10 in the effective stack (assuming it went HU to the flop), you are going to be quite committed to ANY flop that has TT as an over pair, so a fold pre vs a very tight EP raiser is probably better than a risky 3bet, which is better than a flat in my opinion.

    hope it helps.

    -JDean
    Last edited by JDean; Sun Aug 05, 2012, 04:31 PM.
    Double Bracelet Winner

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    • #3
      double post, self edit.
      Last edited by JDean; Sun Aug 05, 2012, 04:32 PM.
      Double Bracelet Winner

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      • #4
        Thanks JDean,

        My intentions where for sure to set mine Tens. but you're remarks gave me new insight, thanks for that i'll note it :-) I need to look more to stack size i know. What is the exact reason someone starts with about 40BB? and not max it out?

        Regards Ferdy
        Bracelet Winner

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        • #5
          Hi again.

          Short stack play, as a style choice, has some validity.

          - It tends to simplify commitment decisions, especially when massively multi tabling
          - it tends to minimize loss risk at higher levels (when you "take shots")
          - It tends to make some less aware opponents feel more secure in playing you for stacks

          Of course it also has many drawbacks.

          - If done "correctly" it significantly narrows your range.
          - It minimizes the amount you might WIN
          - It tends to give any bluffs less power

          Personally, I do not like short stacking.

          Many speculative draw hands in position become unplayable because I do not have the money in front of me to peel a street or 2 and possibly win a BIG pot (with the correct risk/reward assessment of course). This means I am nominally "stuck" playing a pretty transparent range of high cards and big pp that I can easily commit on, or I am playing a "normal" range without nearly the same level of bluff/semi bluff "power" in my stack, thus forcing me to make my draws more often in order to win $. Even when those spec hands do pay off though, when short stacking you have less available you CAN win...

          Against really bad opps who are not noticing your range short stacking can be ok. It can also be ok if you intend to "hit and run" at a table, leaving before anyone can truly guess whether you are jamming light or whether you really do have the monster you "should" be jamming. But as a method to "save money" and "minimize risk", short stacking doesn't do that really, at least not in the long term.

          ...only good solid poker skill can do that.

          Hope it helps.

          -JDean
          Double Bracelet Winner

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