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KK lay down ($0.05/$0.10 USD)

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  • KK lay down ($0.05/$0.10 USD)

    ($0.05/$0.10 USD) Villian was very tight, I had KK, 3 bet to $0.90 he called, so im pretty sure he doesnt have AA or QQ but based on what i knew about him i thought he would only be calling my 3bet with some kind of pair. After the check raise on the flop it was screaming set to me... so i timed out. looking back on it im not sure if i should have just called as he may have had 10's JJ 88's or maybe just had AK AQ diamonds.. Should i have called? Thanks.

  • #2
    Hi Catton3!

    Based on the info you gave, your fold MIGHT be reasonable in my opinion.

    All you say is that the opponent is "tight". By not saying how tight you view him, it is quite hard to estimate whether or not he is going to C/R on a 1 pair hand here very often. The operative idea to make a fold with KK as an over pair ok here would be that the villain is SO TIGHT that he is highly unlikely to C/R a committing portion of his stack without a hand that will crush your KK...if that is the case, then a fold is very reasonable, simply because you cannot FLAT his C/R with any hopes of getting away from KK later on..

    Later on in the post though, you give info that indicates a fold here is not the right thing. You question whether he might be jamming 88/TT/JJ, or AK/AQs. You've also said you eliminated AA/QQ from his range, because he would have 4bet those hands. Even if we leave in AA/QQ, you will have about 55%+ equity versus a range of 77+, AQd/AKd. You'd only need to have about 41.7% equity to break even on a 3bet jam over his C/R here, so if you honestly think the villain has it in his range to jam 88/TT/JJ (at least enough to question whether he has them after the fact), and the big over card draws, then your fold was far too tight.

    You see Catton3, we cannot know all you used to weigh your decision at the table. All we can do when we look at your hand is go by the info you give. A TIGHT opponent here may well flat your 3bet with QQ/AA, even though you think this one wouldn't. A TIGHT opponent is pretty unlikely to C/R on less than a 1 pair hand (even AA might wait until the turn bet/raise), so even given a favorable SPR going to the flop of around 5, it may be prefectly fine to NOT stack off with KK. But if you think there are a good number of hands that he MIGHT stack off on that you can beat, either because he is aggro as well as tight or because perhaps YOU have shown yourself to be a bit too tight, then the fact the pot had been built pre flop means you should really consider standing here.

    If you think his actual range to act like this is 77+, AKd/AQd, then this really was a pretty clear call, but if you do not think he is fully on that range that could easily change.

    Hope it helps.

    Double Bracelet Winner


    • #3
      I saw this hand a couple of days ago, and thought that it really sucked to be in a tough situation like that ... like I wasn't sure what I'd have done in your position.

      Then I got one of my own!!

      I used to call in spots like these, but then I got tired of calling, only to find out my instincts were right about them having flopped a set, etc.

      Now I've cut back on being such a station - but folding's not so hot either, because at least when you call you know for sure what other person had, and you aren't haunted by the uncertainty

      Who knows for sure, eh? But in looking at your hand, and what you said about the person not calling your 3bet without a solid hand, I get the sense that you're fairly TAG. And if you're TAG, then I don't see somebody very tight making that massive check-raising with JJ or TT because what if you had QQ or KK and called? And then I don't see somebody very tight check-raising with AK or AQ of diamonds because what if you had AA? Then their AK/Q wouldn't be good, and they'd just have 9 outs?

      It feels like a set to me too (and that they were worried you might have the AK or AQ and think you had more outs than you did, so they were hoping you'd fold, hence the shove)?

      But then again I folded too, so ... who knows for sure, eh? uggghhh ...
      Last edited by TrustySam; Sat Jun 09, 2012, 09:30 AM.


      • #4
        Thank you both, youve helped alot. I see now that it really does depend on your read of the player in this situation. I just needed more time to figure it out lol I really didnt think he would C/R all in with just an over pair there though i hadnt seen anything like that from him before.

        All part of the learning though




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