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Call or Fold?????

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  • Call or Fold?????

    Initial raiser is a Rock for me with such stats like 8/7.. and guy who goes all in is v loose.. so when he goes all in I do not mind calling him but after the other one calls and with his stats I think AA or KK.. Should I HAVE CALLED? A reraise would have done a better job I believe but I do not like reraising guys that are v tight. Etienne
    Last edited by etipac; Mon Feb 27, 2012, 12:57 PM. Reason: Mis info..

  • #2
    What a tough spot, if you had reraised do you think the loose opp would of shoved just the same,the chances are likely.
    Then an even more harder decission to make. I like the fold personally with only an investment of 30c.
    You can argue that it is a cash table and this was a chance to win a big pot, however that was some raise by the loose opp and a dangerous call by the tight opp with you to act after.
    Im folding and not risking my stack for that amount regardless of my starting hand.

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    • #3
      I agree with holdmeace. The shove from the loose opponent I think I would call but after the call by the tight opponent this is pretty much a fold. More often than not you'll find yourself drawing to 2 outs in a three way pot. The pocket 10s really surprised me.

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      • #4
        Tough decision but i my case i surely fold. In my statistic i lose lot money after i got AKo (AKs get me money). Against a tight player often you be underdog if you hold QQ and AK. I have see some player who only play premium hand and go all in no matter position, limper, Just go all in. I want to see they hand with a AK so he shoved KK. From a tight player you shold be careful but sometime you can reraise him. Fold is correct play for me in this spot.

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        • #5
          Hi Etienne,

          Wow great spot to discuss!!!

          First of all preflop, I like your flat call. Guys playing nitty stats like 8/7 opening from EP it is much better to flat in position with QQ than 3B imo (on deeper stacks)... when we 3B in this spot we will fold out most of the hands in his range that we are smashing, and only get action from the top of his range, which plays very well against QQ. It's much more profitable to keep his range wide, the spr higher, and play the pot in position against him.

          Now comes the tricky part. Mr. Super-Loose overbet shoves out of the blinds. Against him QQ is a snap call. But the rock reshoves. Yuck. Most of the time nits this tight are only getting it in pre with KK or AA, which would make QQ an easy fold. Super-nitty guys often won't stack off AK even, and if we give him some combos of AK (say all 4 suited combos and half the offsuit ones) and KK+ he is still smashing us, we are about a 2-1 dog vs that range.

          That's most of the time. The key difference this time is that there is a bad player shoving presumably lite. So there in lies the key... does the nit know this? If the nit isn't paying attention and just getting it in super tight like normal, then it's a tough spot. If the nit recognizes what's going on though he will be calling this shove lighter than normal, so his calling all in range because TT+ and AK at least, which then makes our QQ a super easy call.

          Ultimately I think I would have called here unless I simply believed the nit was only getting it in with KK+. Even against the range of KK+, AKs, and half of the AKo combos, where we are about a 65-35 dog, we are still getting 2-1 on our money so it's ok... and if the nit is calling any wider due to the situation then we are in the profit zone.

          The "chance to win a big pot" should never be a reason to make a bad (-EV) play, -EV is -EV and losing money is the result. But in this case the size of the pot due to the weak shove of the super loose guy I think does provide us the overlay to have some wiggle room in our ranging of the rock... if it's close (which it probably is) this overlay swings it to a call imo since we're getting 2-1 on a call now instead of 1-1.

          Dave
          Head Live Trainer
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          4 Time Bracelet Winner



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