PokerStars homepage
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Abandoning all hope at the 1c/2c tables...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Abandoning all hope at the 1c/2c tables...

    I almost lost it tonight, the amount of bad beats I was getting on those tables was ridiculous. AKs on a flop of 865ss. So I Cbet about half the pot. Opp calls (an annoying Ukrainian donk). The turn is my dream card - the J of spades, completing my nut flush. Opp bets small into me, so I 3 bet him back (hoping he'll call). He does (excellent!). The pot now stands at almost 50BBs. Opp checks, so I value bet about half the pot (hoping he'll call). He raises to 100BBs. Very natural for this guy though on the river, so I reraise him allin. The pot is now at 400BBs, and I show my flush. To my dismay he lucked out on quad 8s on the river card. I had to leave the table immediately or my tilt would have known no end...

    I'm sure I played it right but these donk wins are driving me insane... Every time I get good cards, I win too little because everyone folds, and other than that donks call me with bad cards only to hit the miracle somewhere down the road. It's nearly ruined my bankroll. The most irritating thing about it is that I know I'm not a bad player, in my mind at the time I'm making the right move.

    Needless to say, I'm moving to the 5c/10c tables. My downswing has seemingly flipped now I'm up a level or two (as has the skill and/or predictability of the players). In half an hour I've managed to cut a third off my losses, so I think I'll stay

  • #2
    hmmmm...

    Bad Beat ? Maybe - Really would like to see hand history - fact is on paired board - forget about the likelyhood of quads - did the idea of a full house cross your mind?

    I have played over 100k hands of .01/.02 so far this year and yes I am stuck for about thirty bucks but it has been a very interesting experment to date.

    I have tried short stacking - and you are correct - some people never fold so your short stack strategy can get derailled pretty easily.

    If you have not heard it before - big bets are big hands - especially in deep stack poker and like it or not the .01/.02 with 250 bb buy ins is deep stack poker.

    I can understand your frustration - however with barely 1000 hands tracked at ptr - I think you may be jumping to conclusions a bit too soon.

    I have not sat down and written out everything I think I have learned over the last 31 days of playing multi table .01/.02 - what I will say at this point in time is:
    1. as per above - big bets mean big hands
    2. sticking at table buy - ins that conform to your bank roll and bank roll management guides - allows you to withstand the river quad hands and still continue to play. Busting for a full five dollar buy in may hurt some - busting for a full buy in at .05/.10 hurts more.

    The final point that I would mention is that 100k+hands over a relatively short period of time really does tend to prove out the advise, expressions etc that one reads over and over - like not going broke on one pair hands, tightening up early, the importance of position and so many more.

    I have seen you stack off on a preflop five bet with big slick - over 75 bb in preflop with no pair..... big leak in my opinion....

    PokerStars - $0.02 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
    UTG: $1.57
    Hero (UTG+1): $5.10
    MP: $0.80
    MP+1: $0.86
    CO: $1.45
    BTN: $2.01
    SB: $0.75
    BB: $0.88
    SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02, MP posts DB $0.02
    Pre Flop: ($0.05) Hero has 9:spade: J:spade:
    UTG raises to $0.08, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $0.08, fold, BTN raises to $0.16, fold, fold, UTG raises to $0.48, fold, BTN raises to $2.01 and is all-in, UTG calls $1.09 and is all-in
    Flop: ($3.27, 2 players) 5:spade: 4:diamond: Q:club:
    Turn: ($3.27, 2 players) Q:diamond:
    River: ($3.27, 2 players) 9:club:
    UTG shows K:diamond: A:club: (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 31%, Flop 16%, Turn 7%)
    BTN shows K:heart: K:club: (Two Pair, Kings and Queens) (Pre 69%, Flop 84%, Turn 93%)
    BTN wins $3.16




    learning to fold has been one of the toughest parts of the current experment.



    good luck to you - see you at the tables.
    Last edited by Astro705; Thu Feb 09, 2012, 08:41 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      hi m8t,its true what astro says,alot of players overlook full houses etc,this cost big bucks at times,even on the 1c 2c levels,i have personally learnt that they are not all donks but in fact some reallly good players,yes there is still fish in the sea but be aware unless you have the nuts,all in action is not advised in my opinion,and even the bad players get hands m8t.
      Tighten up your thought process,over think if you have to,less mistakes less loss,live to fight another day , sometimes even if you think your good better to fold than loose your stack.
      hope this helps m8t.

      Comment


      • #4
        A Few thoughts To Ponder

        1. 400BBs? What about pot control? Do not risk more than you are willing to lose. Sure, you were right to play the hand, but......,
        1a. What information did you acquire when your c-bet was called on the flop.
        1b. What information did you acquire when he raised the turn? It is good to think about the possible hands he has that you can beat.

        2. A paired board? I love paired boards, but they are also scary. So expect a roller-coaster ride. Sometimes high card wins, sometimes two pair, and trips often are nice. I have gotten it in big and lost full house over full house. Quads are rare, and easy to bet into with another strong hand. This will not be the last time it happens to you, if you play enough poker.
        2a. It is a seven card game, the river is one of those cards, an opponent can come from behind. It happens to everybody. It will at times work in your favor.

        3. You are looking across the cyber table thinking ,"I can fleece this idiot," and he is often thinking the same thing back at you.
        3a. Even an idiot is as likely to be dealt aces and monster hands as often as anybody.
        3b. Most people think that they are good players.

        4. The toughest opponents are unpredictable, irrespective and regardless of their style. Whether they are TAGs, LAGs, small ball, or maniacs. I recommend watching some of The Langoliers' videos to help identify different situations.

        5. This is the most important. Variance is experienced by everyone, at every level. There are some pretty big names that are stuck well over 100K and even worse. There is no shortage of these stories in the various on-line journals and blogs.
        5a. The faster the swing up, the faster the swing down.
        5b. Quads still beat a flush at higher stakes.

        Good luck to you. I hope you grind your bankroll steadily upwards.
        5 Time Bracelet Winner


        Comment


        • #5
          Many thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it! I know my post was a bit tilted there but I needed to vent my situation at the time!

          Originally posted by Astro705 View Post
          Bad Beat ? Maybe - Really would like to see hand history - fact is on paired board - forget about the likelyhood of quads - did the idea of a full house cross your mind?

          If you have not heard it before - big bets are big hands - especially in deep stack poker and like it or not the .01/.02 with 250 bb buy ins is deep stack poker.

          I can understand your frustration - however with barely 1000 hands tracked at ptr - I think you may be jumping to conclusions a bit too soon.

          I have seen you stack off on a preflop five bet with big slick - over 75 bb in preflop with no pair..... big leak in my opinion....

          learning to fold has been one of the toughest parts of the current experment.
          Full house briefly crossed my mind, but going by what this guy had acted like before it seemed to far fetched to be a possibility. I had him on two pair, maybe a straight/flush draw with suited connectors/1 gappers.

          Generally a big bet will be enough to scare me off, however on this occasion I knew he had made attempts like that before (big overbets) while only holding top pair. With my flush I figured that the best he had was trips or a flush - which made sense in my mind considering I had ranged him to possibly two pair on the flop.

          Learning to fold... definitely horribly difficult for me haha. I find it very hard to get away with a genuinely strong hand! Something I definitely need to work on.

          Originally posted by Tonk Shuffle View Post
          1. 400BBs? What about pot control? Do not risk more than you are willing to lose. Sure, you were right to play the hand, but......,
          1a. What information did you acquire when your c-bet was called on the flop.
          1b. What information did you acquire when he raised the turn? It is good to think about the possible hands he has that you can beat.

          3. You are looking across the cyber table thinking ,"I can fleece this idiot," and he is often thinking the same thing back at you.
          3a. Even an idiot is as likely to be dealt aces and monster hands as often as anybody.
          3b. Most people think that they are good players.
          Thanks Tonk, some more good points.

          1a: This guy had been known to call a few cbets before in order to scare the PFR, eventually raising the turn and showing medium pair or worse... I picked a bad spot to assume...
          1b: In hindsight, a raise on the turn would have made sense more than the check raise. The check raise should have aroused more suspiscion (even though at this point I had him beaten). The check raise was slightly out of character...

          3a: A horribly unfortunate truth!
          3b: Haha this is true, in all honesty I probably overvalue my skills a bit. Thought the good thing about this forum is I can review my play and hopefully improve

          I guess I need to work on my reading ability...

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi ah309! The thing that sticks out here for me is the 1/2 pot c-bet on the flop. With having the flush draw, by c-betting 1/2 pot, if either you or the opp bets the turn if a spade doesn't show up, then that large of a c-bet prices OUT the flush draw for 1 street. There are 9 spades out there, so the 9 outs have 18% equity for one street. By betting 1/2 pot, you're making the bet 25% pot equity. The pot equity is higher than the hand equity, so it's a -EV play if someone bets the turn if it misses. If the both you and the opp would check the turn if a spade doesn't come up, then in the long run it will be a +EV play, as then the hand would have two streets of equity, making the hand equity 36%. I don't know how many people saw the flop, so I don't know if a smaller bet could have been done, but if I wanted to c-bet this hand, I'd have made it a bit less, so that I could be priced in. I also totally agree with the others comments about a full house. When a board pairs, I'm not worried about quads. If it happens, then I'll say nh and move on. I would be looking at what combos of cards would fit the opp's betting pattern that could be a full house though. Hope this helps!umbup: John (JWK24)
            Super-Moderator



            6 Time Bracelet Winner


            Comment


            • #7
              moving up levels

              I feel your pain, having been sent on a massive tilt downswing with my bankroll destroyed in similar circumstances. But paired boards are always a danger and many players at this level will call with almost anything e.g. 83c and pick up flush draw and shove with it catching the flush crushing my aces. Or shove with 9 10 off, again with my aces crushed.

              Playing at lower levels is an education and for a good while i was happy to break even but now i'm trying to accumulate a bigger bank roll and move on up.

              There is i feel less chance of bingo being played at the higher levels but the 1c/2c tables are not the gates of hell but the start of an eduction as already mentioned.

              so good luck

              Comment


              • #8
                Going to be blunt:

                If your not profitable at 2NL, then there is no logical reason to move up to 10NL. Playing better players because you can't beat the bad ones makes absolutely no sense. Seriously dude, think about it.

                Learn to profit from the bad players mistakes at 2NL first before moving up to higher limits.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just finished a tournament. I had 88 on the button, about 15BB left, two bigger stacks behind me. Ten people left, so close to the final table. Rather than shoving (maybe a mistake) I raised 2.3BB, and the big stack called. The flop gave me a full house, so I put the rest of my chips in, and the big stack called. The result? The flop gave the big stack quads. LOL
                  5 Time Bracelet Winner


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    just cashed

                    OK, I've just cashed for 6 dollars in fpp tourny, can i turn this into 12 dollars on the cash games? Any tips would be welcome!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marjoryaaa View Post
                      OK, I've just cashed for 6 dollars in fpp tourny, can i turn this into 12 dollars on the cash games? Any tips would be welcome!
                      Hello marjoryaaa, 80 dollers is the recommended bankroll for 1c 2c no limit holdem, but 6 dollers not impossible to double to 12 dollers.
                      If you consider min buyins at 80c and approach it with a double and run approach that may work.
                      Play the 9 seaters rather than 6 seater allows you more time to wait for a premium hand.
                      Have you considered the cheap buyin tourneys from as little as 2c,and set the stall out to try min cash every time and build it up that way?.
                      Hope this helps you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Question: why would you recommend a minimum bankroll of $80 to play the 1c/2c games. There's nothing lower than that, so as far as I see any bankroll will be sufficient to play at those stakes.
                        The Road to Fame and Fortune - Keeping track of my poker semi-career
                        Keep up to date: @Ov3rsight


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ov3rsight View Post
                          Question: why would you recommend a minimum bankroll of $80 to play the 1c/2c games. There's nothing lower than that, so as far as I see any bankroll will be sufficient to play at those stakes.
                          Hello ov3 the reason is standard 100 buyins to allow for variance, yes you can play with less but if on the occasion you are playing and having a down swing in beats this amount of buyins allows you for that swing.
                          My main thought would be to play in 10c turbo mtts and grind my way to a bigger br to allow to progress to this.
                          That way 6 dollars seems a big bankroll compared with only a few buyins at 80c.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            double and run

                            im gonna try double and run on 2c tables with a dollar buy in. Thanks for the advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ov3rsight View Post
                              Question: why would you recommend a minimum bankroll of $80 to play the 1c/2c games. There's nothing lower than that, so as far as I see any bankroll will be sufficient to play at those stakes.
                              Hi Ov3rsight!

                              For cash tables, I try to always buy-in for the max and make sure that that buy-in is not more than 10% of my cash table bankroll.

                              John (JWK24)
                              Super-Moderator



                              6 Time Bracelet Winner


                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X

                              X Cookies Information

                              We have placed cookies on your computer to improve your experience on our website. You can change your cookie settings at any time. Otherwise, we'll assume you're OK to continue.