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Seems like an easy fold or is it?

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  • Seems like an easy fold or is it?

    PokerStars Hand #73931729354: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/01/16 1:49:20 ET
    Table 'Arm V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: nebojsa62 ($3.97 in chips)
    Seat 2: birliauto ($7.07 in chips)
    Seat 3: kamioyoung ($4.66 in chips)
    Seat 4: Nashy1996 ($5 in chips)
    Seat 5: markiz655 ($5 in chips)
    Seat 6: SirMilliamZ ($2.35 in chips)
    SirMilliamZ: posts small blind $0.02
    nebojsa62: posts big blind $0.05
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Nashy1996 [Kc Jc]
    birliauto: folds
    kamioyoung: folds
    Nashy1996: raises $0.10 to $0.15
    markiz655: calls $0.15
    SirMilliamZ: folds
    nebojsa62: folds
    *** FLOP *** [Js 7d Kd]
    Nashy1996: bets $0.35
    markiz655: calls $0.35
    *** TURN *** [Js 7d Kd] [8d]
    Nashy1996: bets $0.80
    markiz655: raises $1.96 to $2.76
    Nashy1996: folds
    Uncalled bet ($1.96) returned to markiz655
    markiz655 collected $2.54 from pot
    markiz655: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $2.67 | Rake $0.13
    Board [Js 7d Kd 8d]
    Seat 1: nebojsa62 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: birliauto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: kamioyoung folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Nashy1996 folded on the Turn
    Seat 5: markiz655 (button) collected ($2.54)
    Seat 6: SirMilliamZ (small blind) folded before Flop


    Hi again everyone,just thought i'd post this hand,i considered not putting it up as it seemed like a pretty comfortable decision at the time but i thought i'd put it up anyway to see what everyone makes of it.obviously if i have a one pair hand here i fold in a heartbeat,having 2 pair makes it a little more difficult against an unknown player.
    In saying that i cant really see him raiseing with king hands in this spot.As i said its probably clear to anyone reviewing this hand but i thought i'd put it up anyway for some clarity
    thanks!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nashy1996 View Post
    PokerStars Hand #73931729354: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/01/16 1:49:20 ET
    Table 'Arm V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: nebojsa62 ($3.97 in chips)
    Seat 2: birliauto ($7.07 in chips)
    Seat 3: kamioyoung ($4.66 in chips)
    Seat 4: Nashy1996 ($5 in chips)
    Seat 5: markiz655 ($5 in chips)
    Seat 6: SirMilliamZ ($2.35 in chips)
    SirMilliamZ: posts small blind $0.02
    nebojsa62: posts big blind $0.05
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Nashy1996 [Kc Jc]
    birliauto: folds
    kamioyoung: folds
    Nashy1996: raises $0.10 to $0.15
    markiz655: calls $0.15
    SirMilliamZ: folds
    nebojsa62: folds
    *** FLOP *** [Js 7d Kd]
    Nashy1996: bets $0.35
    markiz655: calls $0.35
    *** TURN *** [Js 7d Kd] [8d]
    Nashy1996: bets $0.80
    markiz655: raises $1.96 to $2.76
    Nashy1996: folds
    Uncalled bet ($1.96) returned to markiz655
    markiz655 collected $2.54 from pot
    markiz655: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $2.67 | Rake $0.13
    Board [Js 7d Kd 8d]
    Seat 1: nebojsa62 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: birliauto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: kamioyoung folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Nashy1996 folded on the Turn
    Seat 5: markiz655 (button) collected ($2.54)
    Seat 6: SirMilliamZ (small blind) folded before Flop


    Hi again everyone,just thought i'd post this hand,i considered not putting it up as it seemed like a pretty comfortable decision at the time but i thought i'd put it up anyway to see what everyone makes of it.obviously if i have a one pair hand here i fold in a heartbeat,having 2 pair makes it a little more difficult against an unknown player.
    In saying that i cant really see him raiseing with king hands in this spot.As i said its probably clear to anyone reviewing this hand but i thought i'd put it up anyway for some clarity
    thanks!
    my opinion
    preflop raise touch and go may of limped personally
    flop -once the board as 2 diamonds and i havent any would be worried and try to keep it cheap
    turn-a bit to heavy of a bet and then yes you had to fold

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Nashy, Hard to say without any specific information on the opponent. What I do like about this though is that it is a disciplined fold. When a player bets over you on the turn or river his holding will usually have two pair hands beat the majority of the time. He has position over you here too which makes it's a little harder and he's betting with confidence. Personally I'd be cautious here too. Raiser umbup:
      Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nashy1996 View Post
        PokerStars Hand #73931729354: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/01/16 1:49:20 ET
        Table 'Arm V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
        Seat 1: nebojsa62 ($3.97 in chips)
        Seat 2: birliauto ($7.07 in chips)
        Seat 3: kamioyoung ($4.66 in chips)
        Seat 4: Nashy1996 ($5 in chips)
        Seat 5: markiz655 ($5 in chips)
        Seat 6: SirMilliamZ ($2.35 in chips)
        SirMilliamZ: posts small blind $0.02
        nebojsa62: posts big blind $0.05
        *** HOLE CARDS ***
        Dealt to Nashy1996 [Kc Jc]
        birliauto: folds
        kamioyoung: folds
        Nashy1996: raises $0.10 to $0.15
        markiz655: calls $0.15
        SirMilliamZ: folds
        nebojsa62: folds
        *** FLOP *** [Js 7d Kd]
        Nashy1996: bets $0.35
        markiz655: calls $0.35
        *** TURN *** [Js 7d Kd] [8d]
        Nashy1996: bets $0.80
        markiz655: raises $1.96 to $2.76
        Nashy1996: folds
        Uncalled bet ($1.96) returned to markiz655
        markiz655 collected $2.54 from pot
        markiz655: doesn't show hand
        *** SUMMARY ***
        Total pot $2.67 | Rake $0.13
        Board [Js 7d Kd 8d]
        Seat 1: nebojsa62 (big blind) folded before Flop
        Seat 2: birliauto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
        Seat 3: kamioyoung folded before Flop (didn't bet)
        Seat 4: Nashy1996 folded on the Turn
        Seat 5: markiz655 (button) collected ($2.54)
        Seat 6: SirMilliamZ (small blind) folded before Flop


        Hi again everyone,just thought i'd post this hand,i considered not putting it up as it seemed like a pretty comfortable decision at the time but i thought i'd put it up anyway to see what everyone makes of it.obviously if i have a one pair hand here i fold in a heartbeat,having 2 pair makes it a little more difficult against an unknown player.
        In saying that i cant really see him raiseing with king hands in this spot.As i said its probably clear to anyone reviewing this hand but i thought i'd put it up anyway for some clarity
        thanks!
        Without specific reads on the villain you're left with to going with what usually is the type of play you will see at a given level. This is classic calling station twice with 2 suited cards and then betting big when the hand hits poker here. Very common in micro play. Much more often than not you're up against the flush here. Good fold IMO.

        Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
        my opinion
        preflop raise touch and go may of limped personally
        flop -once the board as 2 diamonds and i havent any would be worried and try to keep it cheap
        turn-a bit to heavy of a bet and then yes you had to fold

        Holdem I'll go one by one here as I see it...

        First to the limping pre-flop. NO. DO NOT open limp. EVER. Raise or fold.

        The flop bet...I like the bet size here. You want to make one of two things happen when you flop top 2 and there is a wet board (like with 2 cards in a suit you don't have...). You either want to tax them heavy for chasing their draws or you want them to give up the ghost. A near pot sized bet is accomplishing both things.

        Look if the villain has 2 diamonds that also connect for the straight draws (AQ,A10,Q10,109,98),then you're anywhere from basically flipping to around 57-43%. Anything else and your odds go up to better than 67% for the most part. You can't be scared of the villain hitting or you can never extract any value. But you sure as Hell don't want to give them a cheap peel of a card with a board this coordinated either. So I like the pot sized bet myself.

        Turn card...Yeah this is a tough spot. You could be ahead but not likely and you still have outs if not. I would have probably just made the same sized raise as on the turn so at least there's some "standardness" to my raise at least. Don't think a check here would be good as that is iniviting a bluff for sure and we could fold the best hand. But wouldn't want to raise an amount that's hard to get away from either. I agree with you here holdem,for my taste the turn raise is a little much.

        Just a tough spot and I would feel wrong-footed no matter what my play at this point in the hand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Against an unknown player I would absolutely play it the same way.

          I like all your betsizings on the flop and turn since they are really drawheavy and you will get called by a lot of hands on both streets that have either pairs or combinations of draws or pairs + draws.

          Without any reads I would definitely give this guy credit for a flush or T9 here since he makes a very committing raise against a strong bet on the flushcard. Your turn betting range surely contains flushes hence I would not assume to get bluffed here very often anyway.

          The only thing that can happen sometimes at microstakes here is people turning worse hands like T9, two pair or sets into bluffs without them actually being aware of it. Still, you do not dominate too many of those and could be getting it in way behind against their overall turn raising range.

          - Felix
          Last edited by PSO-xflixx; Mon Jan 16, 2012, 01:50 PM.
          Live Trainer



          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nashy1996 View Post
            PokerStars Hand #73931729354: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/01/16 1:49:20 ET
            Table 'Arm V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
            Seat 1: nebojsa62 ($3.97 in chips)
            Seat 2: birliauto ($7.07 in chips)
            Seat 3: kamioyoung ($4.66 in chips)
            Seat 4: Nashy1996 ($5 in chips)
            Seat 5: markiz655 ($5 in chips)
            Seat 6: SirMilliamZ ($2.35 in chips)
            SirMilliamZ: posts small blind $0.02
            nebojsa62: posts big blind $0.05
            *** HOLE CARDS ***
            Dealt to Nashy1996 [Kc Jc]
            birliauto: folds
            kamioyoung: folds
            Nashy1996: raises $0.10 to $0.15
            markiz655: calls $0.15
            SirMilliamZ: folds
            nebojsa62: folds
            *** FLOP *** [Js 7d Kd]
            Nashy1996: bets $0.35
            markiz655: calls $0.35
            *** TURN *** [Js 7d Kd] [8d]
            Nashy1996: bets $0.80
            markiz655: raises $1.96 to $2.76
            Nashy1996: folds
            Uncalled bet ($1.96) returned to markiz655
            markiz655 collected $2.54 from pot
            markiz655: doesn't show hand
            *** SUMMARY ***
            Total pot $2.67 | Rake $0.13
            Board [Js 7d Kd 8d]
            Seat 1: nebojsa62 (big blind) folded before Flop
            Seat 2: birliauto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
            Seat 3: kamioyoung folded before Flop (didn't bet)
            Seat 4: Nashy1996 folded on the Turn
            Seat 5: markiz655 (button) collected ($2.54)
            Seat 6: SirMilliamZ (small blind) folded before Flop


            Hi again everyone,just thought i'd post this hand,i considered not putting it up as it seemed like a pretty comfortable decision at the time but i thought i'd put it up anyway to see what everyone makes of it.obviously if i have a one pair hand here i fold in a heartbeat,having 2 pair makes it a little more difficult against an unknown player.
            In saying that i cant really see him raiseing with king hands in this spot.As i said its probably clear to anyone reviewing this hand but i thought i'd put it up anyway for some clarity
            thanks!
            Hello again Nashy!

            This is really not a straight forward decision at all in my opinion...

            "The book" says you really should be ready to stack off with top 2 in a medium SPR situation more often than not. You created an SPR of around 13.5 going to the flop with your raise, and a call, and that is a medium SPR. A lot of people just play "by the book", and might jam or call in your spot.

            The problem with just following "the book" is that it really doesn't help with some board textures and actions patterns. This seems to be one of those...

            As PSO-Flixx points out, the only real hands that you are ahead of that are likely to raise so strongly on the turn are K8 that he over values, or K7 that he tried to slow play and got scared when the 3rd diamond turned. AA with the Ad would require more villain info to really credit in my opinion, so you are really only beating a very few hands with top 2. The size of the Villain's raise leaves you zero room to fold him off of a better hand that might be scared of a big 3bet (like a baby flush or bottom set), so there is no use in trying.

            If you had more info on the villain, you MIGHT be able to turn your KJ into a bluff catcher by check/calling the turn, but oop vs. an unknown, that is far too risky on this turn in my opinion.

            So looks to me like you took the best line you could without info Nashy...

            Nice fold.

            Hope it helps.

            -JDean
            Double Bracelet Winner

            Comment

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