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good read maybe?

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  • good read maybe?

    Hi all, i just wanna explain why i called this all in with TT, i know my flop bet was a little weak but i was more cautiuos 4 handed, has u can see i raise after the flop after 2 checks to me, the op then goes all in and the other 2 ops fold this all in was an unexpected move so i had to re-evaluate, now if the opp had a big over pair qq kk aa i think he would of 3bet me pref, i ruled out a set because why go all in with a chance of pushing me out of the pot, so my range for him was basically 3 hands 99 tt or jj well i thought 2 outa the 3 hands here is profitable for me to call so i did, the op mucked 99, he was a tag aswell. Q was my thinking in this hand a good proper read or did i just get lucky?

  • #2
    What kind of read did you have on your "villian"

    I'm shocked that in this limit you didn't credit him with A8 or a pure airball.

    I play very little ring games now days (trying to get back in) so take my words for what they are worth (pure thinking out loud ness?)

    Anyway i thought the bet on flop was good you are asking the question, "do you guys have anything?" and depending on the range you put your opponent on (and you explained your thinking very well) it was an easy call.

    Grade b
    I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

    13 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      [QUOTE=Grade b;314330]What kind of read did you have on your "villian" Hi grade b, my read was, why would a tag style player go all in on that flop if he hit a set what was so scary to him he had to move all in and did not want to see a turn card, so then i applied hand ranges for him. And yeah a lag style player prolly A8 lol and if he was loose pasive then i would give him credit there. BTW congrats on member of the week, good luck with your package dude umbup:
      Last edited by PokerPest72; Thu Dec 01, 2011, 08:38 AM. Reason: more info :)

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      • #4
        Ok I'm gonna have a quick go at this one, its my first reply to a hand so I may be waaaaay off!!

        If you put him on those 3 hands your exactly 50/50 and I think its a good call unless I have the numbers completely wrong, which is a strong possibility!! If you add a hand with an 8 in it to his shoving range, and I think you can, then its definitely a good call. Even if A8 might not be a call from this particular player maybe hands like 98, 87 or even J8 are an option. I agree that sets probably wouldn't shove on that flop but I have seen it. As long as he 3bets his AA KK and QQ preflop you can discount those hands and then you're only worried about JJ which is a small part of his range.

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        • #5
          In this spot, you pretty much did exactly as you should.
          Consider...

          On the flop, after your raise and the 3 calls, the effective stack is only 94c.
          The pot is 24c, making your stack to pot ratio right around 4 (3.9).

          Low SPR numbers such as you see here tend to increase your willingness to play for stacks (or should) against the effective stack (the effective stack is the smallest stack in the pot still).

          This is because the size of the pot is large enough in relation to the size of the call that you should be more willing to CALL if you hold hands such as top pair, over pairs, or bottom 2 pair.

          Also, the large size of the pot relative to the effective stack means you definately want to lead out (as you did) if you believe you hold the best hand. If this lead out takes the pot down for you, the size is enough to make that "ok". If the lead out then sees a shove by the shortest stack, your call is even easier than it would be if the effective stack shoved.

          The only things which might have CHANGED your willingness to play the hand exactly as you did would be specific reads on your short stacked opponent. If you had seen him call along into multi-way pots on big over pairs, it may have been better for you to LIMP your TT utg to set mine. Personally though, I'd consider this to be a little bit weak, as you really have no clue when ou open the pot whether the short stack will even stick around.

          Another thing which could have changed your willingness to call here is if a larger stack in the blind called ahead of you, or re-shoved. Had that happened, you'd still have a relatively small SPR, but only because the short stack had made it so; YOUR investment in the pot would have been reasonable small still. The check/raise, or check/call from a bigger stack on a dry board would tend to throw up a signal of great strength, and in the light of that strength potential you really would want to re-assess your holding based on what you know about the opponents. In short, such a line from a blind would STRONGLY point toward a set on a board such as this...

          As for your thought process, I would say it is spot on for what you should be thinking when a short stack makes an attempt like this. The only thing I think you are "missing" in your thoughts are:

          Sure, he could have a set here, and he could recognize that your C-Bet after a raise UTG means your hand is one that is an over pair to the board, and sort of "locks" you into a call if you do have that over pair. In that case, with the pot a pretty large % of his stack, he has no reason to try playing it slower. Were the pot SMALLER in relation to his stack, or were the blinds very very loose callers, then there might be reasons for him to play a set slower. so there was some risk that the short stack held a set.

          The fact of the matter is though, with only 3 possible sets there, the chances are he is trying to take you off this because he thinks you may have just been C-Betting is good enough that with a pretty large pot in relation to a beneficial SPR for you means you really want to make this call a lot more often than not.

          Very well played.
          Double Bracelet Winner

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