Bet Sizing

[Grade b]

Hi All,

I tend to bet 1/2 pot against 1 villain or 2/3 if i'm against more than 1 villain?

However seems i'm leaving some value so time to look at my cash game bet sizing.

I currently use 3x (=1 per limper if raiseing)

3x if re-raising

then 1/2 on flop turn and river.

What does everyone one else use and is it working?

Grade b

[JWK24]

I've been using 3 or 4 plus an extra for each limper preflop. The stickier they are, the more I'm raising.

Postflop, unless the board is really dry, I've been going at least 60% (if multiway 75-80%) and can go up to pot or even slightly over pot, depending on the situation. On dry boards, I may drop it down to as low as 25-33% pot, depending on the opp's play style.

John (JWK24)

[beatrizdib]

I use 1/2 pot against 1 opp, 2/3 against 2 opps, 3/4 against 3 or more, and sometimes I'll go 1/3 pot depending on the board. Pre flop I do the same as you.

[Grade b]

beatrizdib What JWK24 is trying to teach me ( I'm a very slow pupil but he is Very Very patient, is we also need to look and the viallan and flop texture, I am working on it and think this is better.

I know i need to look on the SPR videos again as that really is something I do-not understand.

anyway I think this is better?

but what does everyone think?

[dirt eh]

I raise POT no matter what. My opening, isolation and 3B size is POT.

[DrIbbo]

Remember I don't play much NLHE, so take what i say with a pinch of salt, but I would raise the flop to about pot 30-35c, you could win the hand there with your draw, or you get loads in the pot when you hit. Even against a set of J's you have 40% equity from here so if he re-raises you are not too badly off, but you are favourite against AJ and overpairs and about even for two pairs. Then you can bet the turn and river to get it all-in

[BluesBro2007]

So here's the thing to me. Anyone that always plays the same way becomes predictable. That gives me confidence. If you always open with 3BB, or 2.5BB or whatever, I know that it's your standard bet and doesn't mean much. If you always add 1BB per limper, I read that book too, and used to do it. I like playing against you, especially in tournaments, (I know this is the cash game topic) because I know it is your standard bet. Betting half or 2/3 pot is also pretty standard because it is easy to do, we have buttons for that. I use a HUD and I'm recording your statistics. If I see you being predictable, I'm going to do my best to be unpredictable. Something that I really liked and I can't remember where I first read it, but it said, the way to win poker is to cause someone else to make a mistake. They are a lot less likely to do that if you are predictable, because chances are, if this is how you play, when you have rubbish or a monster, you will telegraph it.

[Grade b]

So here's the thing to me. Anyone that always plays the same way becomes predictable. That gives me confidence. If you always open with 3BB, or 2.5BB or whatever, I know that it's your standard bet and doesn't mean much. If you always add 1BB per limper, I read that book too, and used to do it. I like playing against you, especially in tournaments, (I know this is the cash game topic) because I know it is your standard bet. Betting half or 2/3 pot is also pretty standard because it is easy to do, we have buttons for that. I use a HUD and I'm recording your statistics. If I see you being predictable, I'm going to do my best to be unpredictable. Something that I really liked and I can't remember where I first read it, but it said, the way to win poker is to cause someone else to make a mistake. They are a lot less likely to do that if you are predictable, because chances are, if this is how you play, when you have rubbish or a monster, you will telegraph it.

The thing about making a standard play 3x plus 1x per limper is I do it with AA and 65s. So which do I have?

Grade b

[JWK24]

You want to keep them consistent, based on the opp types and stack sizes. Players that bet more with better hands and less with more marginal ones turn their hands up to any observant player that is taking notes. That may be 3x as a baseline, or another number.. but it's based on stack size, not cards.

John (JWK24)

[TheLangolier]

There are many factors that go into my bet sizing decisions, not sure why everyone is getting stuck on # of opponents for post flop sizing. Just last night in a tournament I c-bet as the PFR into 3 opponents on A33 rainbow. How much am I "supposed" to cbet in a 4 way pot? I don't know, according to what I'm reading above 3/4ths pot or in that general area... I cbet 1/4th pot.

Rather than just explain why, I will challenge the posters in this thread to think about it and explain why the sizing I chose might be good (or why the sizing I chose is bad).

[BluesBro2007]

The thing about making a standard play 3x plus 1x per limper is I do it with AA and 65s. So which do I have?

Grade b

Yes, Grade b you are totally right and for about 6 months I played like this religiously, but I felt it left me more exposed to variance. I guess one thing that did happen was that I got a lot of folds in the micros where I played, when I was in late position.

[Grade b]

There are many factors that go into my bet sizing decisions, not sure why everyone is getting stuck on # of opponents for post flop sizing. Just last night in a tournament I c-bet as the PFR into 3 opponents on A33 rainbow. How much am I "supposed" to cbet in a 4 way pot? I don't know, according to what I'm reading above 3/4ths pot or in that general area... I cbet 1/4th pot.

Rather than just explain why, I will challenge the posters in this thread to think about it and explain why the sizing I chose might be good (or why the sizing I chose is bad).

I can think of two reasons both are based on reads

1. You have a maniac on your left who will raise a 1/3 bet every time (and you flopped quads)
2. You missed and the villians have seen you turn over the nuts after a 1/3 bet so its a bluff (also the villians tend to fold to a c-bet)

Grade b

[RichyRob]

There are many factors that go into my bet sizing decisions, not sure why everyone is getting stuck on # of opponents for post flop sizing. Just last night in a tournament I c-bet as the PFR into 3 opponents on A33 rainbow. How much am I "supposed" to cbet in a 4 way pot? I don't know, according to what I'm reading above 3/4ths pot or in that general area... I cbet 1/4th pot.

Rather than just explain why, I will challenge the posters in this thread to think about it and explain why the sizing I chose might be good (or why the sizing I chose is bad).

We can break down your bet sizing "dilemma" into a logic theory basis.

From an exploitative view:

1) When we bet for value, we want calls from worse hands. Therefore, we want to bet as large as possible whilst still getting called.
2) When we bet as a bluff, we want folds from better hands. Therefore, we want to bet as little as possible whilst still getting folds.

"But we don't know TheLangolier's hand???" I hear you all say.

Well on this super-dry board of A33 rainbow, it's a great board to c-bet as the pre-flop aggressor both as value and a bluff. You would c-bet your value hands here for thin value, to try to get calls from weak aces and backdoor draws / sticky people. Similarly, we would c-bet hands for a bluff. But as there aren't huge draws out there and we won't be getting top-pair to fold then we can use a thin bet size.

So for this example, both value and bluff sizing requires a thin bet size here. Irrespective of our holding. So why would we bet three-quarters pot? I guess if we enjoy value-owning ourselves or betting more than we need to when we are bluffing then we could.

Personally, I would save the 1/2 pot from betting 1/4 instead of 3/4 and then we have the option to double-barrel favourable turns.

[DrIbbo]

In TheLangoliers hand, board texture is a really important consideration. In a raised pot there is a small probability someone has a 3 so the board is dry and more likely to hit the pre-flop aggressor's high A hands. The board misses most pre-flop calling ranges with the exception of the worse Ax hands. So the small bet is designed to get value from the lower pairs and worse Ax hands. If the CB is re-raised it is cheap for TheLangolier to fold the hand if he only has top pair or a bluff. If TheLangolier holds AA the small bet might induce a re-raise from an unlikely 3 in which case he can get stacks in.

I'm going to be brave/foolish and hazard a guess that TheLangolier's hole cards were either AA, AK, AQ, 33 or a total bluff

[samitheman99]

I mostly bet 4x against a limper and I look at the calling pattern of the limper and if he call Everytime I raise more on stronger hands