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limit hand. odd play from villain

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  • limit hand. odd play from villain

    limit 2c/4c no real problems.. i got paid just kylemcqueen's play seemed odd. Had only played 20 or so hands against him and he came across relatively passive, and my table image over the last few hands had been tight and only betting / raising with premium hands. I thought maybe he was slow playing Tx, or possibly had an 8 hence me calling on the turn and then just checking the river
    Last edited by Tomcrockpot; Sat Nov 19, 2011, 01:40 AM. Reason: thoughts

  • #2
    yeah, he could have had an 8 or 10, but I can see someone making that type of play with a small pocket pair (not that I'd recommend it). There are only two 8's available and three 10's available. He may be raising to try and get a 10 with a bad kicker out of the hand too. What he forgot about was someone having a higher pocket pair.... like you did.
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    • #3
      This is a NLHE mentality, and an NLHE play. Consider...

      (instead of looking at all the villains, I will only talk aobut the ones in at show down).

      Things I "See" here:

      - Kyle should have thought about making the 3rd bet pre, not flattng your raise.
      True, he is not likely to see a lot of these players going away after they called 2 bets cold from a UTG raiser, but if he binks his set on the flop he does not WANT them gone; at least not until they've put more money in the pot. If they DO go way though, his 66 will tend to be a hand he can play a call line versus 1 opponent on a lot of boards. Since he is probably going to see a decent number of flops he might be willing to pay 1 or 2 more small bets to continue on (without him haivng a set), he benefits getitng those bets in as EARLY as possible in case he flops big.

      - Kyle should not have over-called on the flop.
      You fire your 2nd bullet, but that will happen a lot of the time no matter what you raised. It is the fact both players between you and Kyle called your lead out that should have stopped him putting any more in here. A T is somewhat marginal value here (altho I would probably over call with a decent T), but lacking any draws for people to be chasing, kyle HAS to think at least one of the first 3 into the pot on the flop has a T. That leaves him just 2 outs to win (at most). It is pretty far fetched to think that you ALL are on just over cards, but if he did think that, he needs to be RAISING; if he doesn't drive out at least some overs which might beat him, he is going to really regret it. Note: raising would be bad, but calling would be worse; folding would be best.

      - On the turn I like the fact you lead again. Anyone with a 2 is likely waiting until this street to raise you, so I can understand your smooth call of kyle's raise. One thing I'd like you to note though Tom, see the SB's stack? The SB is probably the one most likely to be ahead of you here, not Kyle. If Kyle had a 2, he has position to know who is likely to stick around, and he can raise the betting earlier to get more value in. Think about it: everyone (except the SB who checked) would have had 1 bet in on the flop in a pretty large pot, right? Do you think everyone is FOLDING for 1 more small bet? Kyle probably would have seen this too and raised it up. That means it is the SB who is probably on a 2 (if anyone is). Since SB has a 4c stack behind, if you make it 3 bets to go on the turn, and Kyle RAISES, you get the SB all in and can start to build a side pot vs. Kyle to off-set your losses to a 2. If kyle "gives up" on his bluff here, he probably still has some sort of calling value now that the pot is only 3 way. So he is probably still calling a river lead by you, or a river RAISE if the SB moves the last of his chips in, and you at least get something. I 'get" your thinking re Kyle; because he seemed more "passive", you probably at thinking set or a 2, so I'm not saying not making it 3 bets is bad, but you should look at the strength of your hand here and see that ONLY 2s or sets (that have boated) are better than you. See?

      - Kyle raise over your 2nd bullet lead is just bad. It has almsot no chance to work. You are not beting 2 overs here (unless you are pretty wild), and you probbly are not betting 33/44/55 either. Even if you have "just" 77, you are AT LEAST flatting that raise. The pot is just too big for any bluff to work, as you'll have the option to check/call there river too. This is a common mistake by NLHE players, who sometimes lack the feel to recognize how hopeless firing a 4c raise is when the lead better has 13.75 to 1 odds to CALL.

      - Kyle again makes a NLHE bet on the river behind your check. I mean 4c into a 59c pot, does he SERIOUSLY think you can fold ANY HAND that you lead the flop and turn on with those odds? Can he really BEAT anything you'd willingly lead, EXCEPT un-paired big Aces? That is jsut a baaaaaad river bet.

      So overall Tom, you played this one pretty well.

      The only small thing I saw that you might have done differently is your no 3 bet on the turn; in all reality that is not a HUGE thing really, as it may have ended up costing you more if Kyle wee not bluffing (or value betting weakly).

      So good job!
      Double Bracelet Winner

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