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More 6Max NLHE $0.01/$0.02

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  • More 6Max NLHE $0.01/$0.02

    Another 6Max hand from my brief session earlier today. I think my hand is good enough in the SB to try the preflop raise when the table folds round, but I am called by the BB so am out of position for the rest of the hand. I hit top pair on the flop so I c-bet 2/3 the pot and am called. I dont like the turn card so much as it puts low straights out there, and flush draws, but most likely only to A3 / A5, possibly 7/8, for the straights unless villain was calling any trash hands - 3-5 looks very unlikely so any straight draws would be most likely gutshots The flush draw does not worry me as I will probably go away if a spade comes and they bet big. I bet again, only half the pot this time, which maybe shows weakness. I get reraised double my bet and call to see the river card as I think he might be on draws or smaller pairs than I have but I still think I am ahead. The river Q does not help any low straight draws or flush draws, but makes me rethink if he may have a bigger K which would include KQ / KJ, but less likely AK, as I would expect a reraise preflop from that hand a lot of the time. I check the river and he bets about 2/3rd the pot. Believe me I thought long and hard before calling. I have again omitted the result, as I am trying to figure out if my call on the river is good/bad or maybe just about OK. Once again I have no reads, I was trying to control the pot but in the end was not willing to give up on top pair 4th best kicker against an unknown opponent. It sounds even worse when I put it like that. Good luck all Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
    Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Mon Oct 31, 2011, 11:42 PM.
    4 Time Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    when you get raised on the turn, I'd put them either on Kx probably with a bigger kicker than you, 66, 35s or xx spades.

    If you're going to call a river bet anyway, how about trying a blocking bet instead of checking. If so, you might be able to get out of the hand cheaper.... if they raise it, you're most likely beat and need to muck to it. Doing that won't save you much if they have a hand, but it might be worth a shot.
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    • #3
      Preflop is standard.

      Post flop, I wouldn't be barreling flop and turn, the flop is so dry what do we think he's calling us with? Most of his range will be better hands or floats with something weaker, and the floats will just fold to a turn barrel. Better to check a street, certainly you can check/call. When you double barrel and he raises you, this is a fold without reads imo.

      Think about the villains range and how many streets of value can you realistically expect to get from worse hands (hard to determine with no reads, so assume avg. opp). You're likely to only get 2 streets of value from worse. Those streets don't have to be the flop and turn however, they can be flop/river or turn/river, so when you have decent showdown value try to manage the pot a bit more on deeper money and get it to showdown without playing too big a pot for your hand.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
        Preflop is standard.

        Post flop, I wouldn't be barreling flop and turn, the flop is so dry what do we think he's calling us with? Most of his range will be better hands or floats with something weaker, and the floats will just fold to a turn barrel. Better to check a street, certainly you can check/call. When you double barrel and he raises you, this is a fold without reads imo.

        Think about the villains range and how many streets of value can you realistically expect to get from worse hands (hard to determine with no reads, so assume avg. opp). You're likely to only get 2 streets of value from worse. Those streets don't have to be the flop and turn however, they can be flop/river or turn/river, so when you have decent showdown value try to manage the pot a bit more on deeper money and get it to showdown without playing too big a pot for your hand.
        +1. I'd probably go for flop and river because not c-betting first to act for me would betray my hand. At the same time, on such a dry flop not much can call for value. Plus, a lot of players will float a dry flop and then fire when you show weakness on the turn. By betting the flop and checking the turn, you induce floats to follow through.
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        • #5
          Thanks again for these responses - this all makes a lot of sense. I definitely need to learn, and then remember, these finer points before I think about moving up in stakes. Once again I actually took the pot, but more because my opponent was poor not because I played it optimally. Still, its always nice to get paid for a hand that I can learn from. And now I do have a note on this villain too. Good luck all Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
          4 Time Bracelet Winner


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          • #6
            to be honest i used to be like him... not THAT bad but still.

            Get a good hand, miss on the flop, still going to bet or raise just to try to bluff you out. This strategy works in the short term but if the more advanced players notice you doing this alot they will take advantage of it.

            This was roughly 2 years ago, when I didnt play serious yet, I've wisen up since I joined the PSO.

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            • #7
              The villain's line is too advanced for 2nl, he's not going to have too much success generally straying from the basics at this level. Whether it was random or by design, I agree it's not good here.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
                The villain's line is too advanced for 2nl, he's not going to have too much success generally straying from the basics at this level. Whether it was random or by design, I agree it's not good here.
                True, because nobody folds at that level, especially if they hit a hand lol

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by roomik17 View Post
                  True, because nobody folds at that level, especially if they hit a hand lol

                  I resemble that remark!

                  Ed
                  4 Time Bracelet Winner


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                  • #10
                    This is actually an interesting hand. When you learn to play tight poker you learn that if you bet the turn and get raised, and you can't beat top pair top kicker, you have to fold (unless you have a solid draw to beat that.) because they're representing a range of value hands that bottoms out with TPTK. If villain suspects that you are standard tight player, this raise should work, causing you to fold out pretty much anything lower than AK. I'm not thrilled with the sizing (should be bigger, as should the river bet), but the idea is there. Probably not too hard to get a "he's tight" read either.

                    Ed, when you bet the turn and get raised what are you expecting villain to have that you beat? With reads you could maybe call, but readless your typical passive 2NL player has you crushed. This is probably a fold. Maybe they did just pick up a flush draw on their float, but you're usually in terrible shape here. Would need reads to know they're that aggressive.

                    If I'm betting the turn it's gonna be a bet/fold. The idea is to get value from call stations with like, 99, 54, etc...but they're never raising anything I beat.

                    And yeah as Dave said, this play is too advanced for 2NL in general, but against the right players it should work pretty well. Most people at 2NL will not fold top pair ever though, so most of the time you should just stick to small 1-street bluffs (they're probably not calling with their 68 on AJ5) and value-town.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oriholic View Post
                      Ed, when you bet the turn and get raised what are you expecting villain to have that you beat? With reads you could maybe call, but readless your typical passive 2NL player has you crushed. This is probably a fold.
                      +1 That's why I said without reads if we double barrel and he raises the turn, this is a fold. We're not beating anything in his turn value raising range, we're only beating bluffs and will have to play the river oop so we need to be reasonably sure he's bluffing to call the raise. Without reads we can't be that sure, as many players at this level will only take this line with value hands.
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