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What is optimal Play?

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  • What is optimal Play?

    Okay Posse,

    The Cowboy is asking you to make the decision! Am I folding, flatting or jamming..... or is there another option?
    This is a single table sng and we are already in the money! I don't think stats are really making a diff here but let me just tell you I have been aggressively trying to take their money and especially at buble time i was asking the question.... " which one of you guys wants to finish 4th?" I was the chip leader and they were passive so you tell me from this info what do I do?

    my bad i forgot to add the hand.

    PokerStars Game #68656108994: Tournament #451940192, $3.11+$0.39 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/10/08 9:39:06 ET
    Table '451940192 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 2: Cushparek (1530 in chips)
    Seat 4: 19honu62 (8680 in chips)
    Seat 9: Joe Koool (3290 in chips)
    Cushparek: posts the ante 25
    19honu62: posts the ante 25
    Joe Koool: posts the ante 25
    19honu62: posts small blind 100
    Joe Koool: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to 19honu62 [4d Ah]
    Cushparek: raises 1305 to 1505 and is all-in

    Gidee Up!
    Last edited by 19honu62; Sat Oct 08, 2011, 06:29 PM.

  • #2
    Do you have a hand replayer to view ?

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    • #3
      from your description I'm passing on this 1. I'm not going to double up the passive shorty, and give him new life. even if he takes the blinds he is still only at about 9 bigs. I would probably shove first in but definitely not call or reshove. let the big blind handle this 1 if he so desires. better spots down the road. you are in no hurry. My.02umbup:
      May the tinfoil protect you. MT

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      • #4
        what type of hands has the opp showed? All solid hands, or alot of questionable ones?
        If the opp was showing marginal hands, then I'm calling because I'd still have over double the 2nd stack if I lost. If the opp was playing tight and only premium cards, then I'd muck once and let him have it..... but if the opp wanted to start doing it frequently, I'm calling with the first decent hand I get.
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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        • #5
          i'd pass this one cowboy...lots of time for better chances. Let the BB take him on if he chooses, the push has polarized the play he's got air or a monster and if he's got 2 napkins you're still not that far ahead. Great example tho thought about it for several minutes down various lines of play..... but as noted previously why double him up with such light holdings. "A" rag is tough to play post flop even if you hit the top pr. umbup:umbup:umbup: look forward to your answer as to what you did. GL at the tables and thx for all the hard work at the live training !!! r0ck

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          • #6
            let this one pass i think u stumble over ur 4 if u bumb heads!!umbup:

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            • #7
              I tend to pass A rag in this spot, I steal blinds with it but I don't want to call all ins with it. When you PokerStove it he has to be shoving more than 55% of hands for you to be a favorite and even in that case your still only a coin flip. A call for 17% of your stack for a coin flip at best and possibly a huge dog at worse is not your ideal situation. So I fold this one and continue to steal blinds and pound away.

              Comment


              • #8
                Clear fold.

                The times A4 is "ahead" of the even a WIDE jam range by the short stack, Cowboy is rarely much more than a 60/40 favorite.

                If there were more hands in a short stack's range that Cowboy is a solid "dominating" favorite over (72/28 type domination, vs the "weak" domination of A4o over A2o that sees A4o only about a 53% fav), he could potentially JAM over the short stack to iso on him.

                Since giving a double up to the short stack here creates 2 stacks that become "threat stacks" for Cowboy (either of them can swap stacks sizes with Cowboy if he doubles the shortie, and doubles EITHER player again), He is far better served in "letting" the shortie "steal" the blinds and antes only , rather than face the possiblitiy of running into a choice between KQ, 77, and A9...

                ALSO...

                The BB has a stack that Cowboy definately does NOT want to double up, as doing so would cost him about 38% of his chips, and greatly increase the 2nd stack's chance of taking 1st place.

                Since Cowboy flatting the all-in makes a flat along by the BB un-likely (BB would have to put near half his chips in to stay, and would be pretty committed by that), doing so adds nothing to Cowboy's potential win here, beyond MAYBE knocking 1 player out. Since we've already shown that A4o is not FAR ENOUGH AHEAD often enough to really want to run the risk of loss really, we'd need a chance at added value to change our minds off a fold; flatting doesn't do enough to change our minds.

                A JAM (or any raise) to iso by Cowboy means the only action by the BB can be to "play for stacks". A4o is not going to fare well versus ANY holding the BB has with which he is willing to play for stacks, not when he can FOLD and possibly lock up at least 2nd place money. So again, a Jam does nothing for us.

                If we cannot CALL, if we cannot JAM (or raise), then our only choice left is to FOLD.

                NOTE:

                There ARE opponents against which a CALL or a JAM could be "better". But all those situations require that you adopt an "exploitative" strategy to take advantage of an opponents' tendencies. This thread asks for the OPTIMAL LINE, and that is the line which gives the best chance of "right" most often. That choice is a FOLD.
                Double Bracelet Winner

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 19honu62 View Post
                  Okay Posse,

                  The Cowboy is asking you to make the decision! Am I folding, flatting or jamming..... or is there another option?
                  I agree with JDean, optimal line is to fold. I just wanted to complete the answer. I believe there is another option. Raise, but not all in.

                  Reckon Cowboy was in a 'shove any ace mood' though, went for it and took it down - do tell.

                  Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
                  4 Time Bracelet Winner


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
                    I agree with JDean, optimal line is to fold. I just wanted to complete the answer. I believe there is another option. Raise, but not all in.

                    Reckon Cowboy was in a 'shove any ace mood' though, went for it and took it down - do tell.

                    Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
                    Yup, you are right...that is another option.

                    I'd point out though, that is an EXPLOITATIVE play.

                    It would be an action designed to "freeze" the BB from shoving, by stating in effect, "I have such a BIG hand I do not want to put you all in, but I am perfectly willing to make a RAISE just PRAYING you jam so I can call". A4o certainly does not carry THAT kind of strength, so making this play is designed to "force" the BB into an act he'd otherwise not make. The effect of this play would be to lock out the BB from calling with the weaker Aces which "dominate" A4o, hands like AQ/AJ/AT/66/77/88, with which he might CALL a limp if it works, and would make it LESS LIKELY Cowboy could fold to a BB jam, thus costing him more if he is behind.

                    Cowboy specifically asked for the OPTIMAL play, so your play thought certainly has validity Edinman, but it is one with which you'd need more info on the BB's tendencies to enact. It also runs the risk of GREATER than necessarily loss in order to have a larger chance of facing the short stack all in alone, so by definition it is 'exploitative" not "optimal".

                    Perhaps i'm being more literal than Cowboy intended, but the point you bring up does illustrate very well the DIFFERENCE between an "optimal" and "exploitative" play Edinman.

                    Nice add.
                    Last edited by JDean; Sun Oct 09, 2011, 02:18 AM.
                    Double Bracelet Winner

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
                      I agree with JDean, optimal line is to fold. I just wanted to complete the answer. I believe there is another option. Raise, but not all in.

                      Reckon Cowboy was in a 'shove any ace mood' though, went for it and took it down - do tell.

                      Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
                      Congrats to those that chose FOLD! However Ed is only partially correct. I did get Ace happy and he turned over a bigger ace and held. I posted it bc when i looked up optimal range to call i was surprised.
                      So next question is what is optimal calling range?

                      Gidee Up!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll wait to answer...

                        but this is a bit of a trick question.

                        Double Bracelet Winner

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                        • #13
                          Well c'mon...SOMEONE put up and answer!
                          Double Bracelet Winner

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                          • #14
                            I don't think I understand the question!

                            If the question is 'what would be the optimal range of cards to hold to make the call'

                            I would say AA-KK, being the tightest possible range. But I don't think this is what Chris is asking.

                            More clarification please.

                            Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan
                            4 Time Bracelet Winner


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                            • #15
                              AK+

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