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The slick

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  • The slick

    I made ​​a mistake because I didn't t put him all in on the turn? How you play this hand?

    http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=86B7FA763E
    Last edited by HandsOfMidas; Mon Sep 26, 2011, 04:41 PM.

  • #2
    I'm a n00b and no kind of hand evaluator, but this type of thing happens a lot with sets.

    Getting burned in the past has led me to start just overbetting the pot or shoving on sets if the board is coordinated, so that potential draws have the totally wrong price to continue. I may not be getting as much value as I could from the hand, but my thinking at this point is that it's better to win a small pot than lose a big one. I could be completely wrong about all that, though.

    I would think that the substantial raise you made to his donkbet would make most draws go away. Maybe you should have re-raised him all in instead? I don't know.

    I'll be interested to see what the evaluators say.

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    • #3
      I think your play was ok here. your flop raise was a little small and gave good odds for a normal draw,(he only had to put 1.50 into 5.50 so he was getting a little better tan 4/1. you'll need to bump up your raise sizing to deny these odds. but on this particular trial, with 15 outs, you were'nt getting this megadraw out until and unless he misses on the end.
      Last edited by mtnestegg; Mon Sep 26, 2011, 05:58 PM.
      May the tinfoil protect you. MT

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      • #4
        That's a flat out cooler hand. You get an extra-premium pocket pair and flop a set and while you're still a slight favorite, you're not the huge favorite that you normally would be due to the exact cards the opp has.

        You could bet a bit more on the turn, but with their hand... I doubt they'd fold, even to a shove.

        I think you played it pretty good, just got extremely unlucky (which will happen a given % of the time).
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        • #5
          When he leads the flop I think you should raise by $2.50 instead of to $2.50. Raise to $3-$3.50 and he should jam. On the turn you have to put him all in...his stack is less than a potsize bet. There are so many draws he can have. You have a big hand and need to extract value from his draws before they all miss! Yes the river card sucks as it brings in a lot of draws, but you were already all-in on the turn really. I don't think I'd ever fold here. I would prefer to be the one putting you all in, but if you shove the flop I'm still calling. The only hand I'd be worried about is , not KK.
          4 Time Bracelet Winner


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          • #6
            I think you just got unlucky ..... No way he's folding open ender str8 flush draw even with a shove after the flop so the only thing you could really ask yourself is could I fold on the river bet as he most likely hit the flush given the way the play goes. The answer is probably not given the vpip and pot odds to call. Chalk it up to bad luck and be glad he didn't have 20$.
            I think you played it well given the cards you had and the board texture and to push preflop nets no value for the hand but might have induced a fold for a 0.60 $ profit. ....or maybe not lol
            cheers and better luck next time r0ck

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            • #7
              to many outs and a big bling bling winner in sight what mess up some people's thinking skills.
              be Honest

              the best feeling is showing the straight flush right! i wouldn't go away either

              bummer for that river

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              • #8
                Preflop, flop play are all fine, I agree on the turn just put him in, not that I would ever expect a villain to fold at that point but you don't want him to fold, you're getting it in good against his entire range so you want him to call whatever it is. But with less than a pot sized bet remaining you do want to get it in on the turn just in case he has a draw (since busted draws won't pay the river and that's value left on the table). You are obv never folding for his last $2 on the river so basically you gave him a $2 freeroll, if he's on a draw and misses he saves $2, but still gets it when his draw comes in. Putting him in on the turn eliminates this freeroll, you get the $2 when he bricks off. If he's NOT on a draw it doesn't matter either way, but it's a factor when they're drawing. (BTW we are never folding the river because he can show up with non-draws here as well easily often enough that it's correct to call with top set).
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                • #9
                  My mistake was i put him on a smaller set and i expected to reraise me all in on the turn...but i don't know why because after the flop betting it was obviously he was on a draw...to many hours in play it's a leak for me I guess. Thank You to all for comments!!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HandsOfMidas View Post
                    My mistake was i put him on a smaller set and i expected to reraise me all in on the turn...but i don't know why because after the flop betting it was obviously he was on a draw...to many hours in play it's a leak for me I guess. Thank You to all for comments!!!
                    No, it was not obvious he was on a draw, he could still have 2 pair+ or a strong 1 pair hand very easily. That being said, if he DOES have a smaller set he's snap calling your turn shove anyway, so you don't need to bet less and have him raise you.
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                    • #11
                      Very informative thread. Goes along with some stuff I've been reading about risk-averse thinking interfering with +EV plays.

                      I'll definitely be re-thinking the way I play sets (especially top sets) when the flop is coordinated...scaring away the draws probably doesn't earn the most chips over the long term.

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