PokerStars homepage
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AJo in BB - Thoughts Please

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • AJo in BB - Thoughts Please

    Hello, I'm deep in a $0.25 MTT with 17 people left, blinds at 2k/4k, and a 400 ante. I had recently had my stack halved after my AT losing to QT so I was down to ~12BBs and I wake up with AJo in the BB. It folds around to the cutoff and he 3x's it. I hadn't been in a lot of hands with him but he had been fairly quiet the last couple of rotations. Previous to that he was pushing the table around with his stack with all in re-raises. A reshuffle had placed another big stack at our table so I suspected he was slowing down. My immediate thoughts were "yes", as the button was very short and I anticipated a shove from him. However, the cutoff raise changed my plans. I was now faced with 2 choices. Call and see a flop. If it misses me, fold and I still have 9BBs; or shove and hope I have the best of it. I don't ever see him folding to my shove in that spot, as I suspect he has something like KQ, QJ, Small PP+, or AX. Please review the following hand and provide me with some thoughts. Did I make the right choice? Was there something I could have done differently? Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Jcrondps; Thu Sep 22, 2011, 04:32 AM. Reason: Corrections
    4 Time Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    No, calling and check/folding the flop is the only thing you CAN'T do here. You can fold, you can shove, you can call and shove any flop since you will have a perfect stack size for it (stop and go play).

    Depending on your reads any of those three are viable options. Also, what's the prize structure like at this point? Mostly I'd plan on getting it in. If not preflop then calling and shoving the flop as a stop and go is a nice option as you give bad odds to unimproved hands, when they'd all be getting good odds preflop.

    He should never be folding preflop after raising you, but postflop you can cause him to make a mistake by calling with worse or folding better (depending on his tendencies).
    Last edited by oriholic; Wed Sep 21, 2011, 09:56 AM. Reason: Haha, called stop and go a go and go
    4 Time Bracelet Winner


    Comment


    • #3
      The payout for 17th was $1.84 and 1st was $70.55. The payouts jumps were standard at 16-18th, 12-15th, 10-12th, and 9th-1st. I was obviously shooting for 1st and not just looking to get to the next payout level.

      Thanks for your feedback. I agree with the call and fold being a bad idea and that ultimately led to my shove. I didn't really consider the call and shove though. Wouldn't me betting into him post flop look more like a bluff since he was the pre-flop aggressor?

      More feedback is welcome.
      4 Time Bracelet Winner


      Comment


      • #4
        If he has a hand like KT he is absolutely correct to call with it if you shove preflop (or 68 for that matter.) If unimproved after the flop he may not be getting the right price and you make him choose between calling without the right price or forfeiting his equity in the pot. Say he has KT and the flop is 589. Now what? A decent amount of the time he hits his K or T on the turn/river after you both miss the flop. What about if he has 68 on a K99 flop? If he hits his 6 he'll pull ahead of your AJ but does he really want to call your shove on that board???

        It's just another tool to add to your arsenal. Usually a resteal is fine, but stop-and-go has its uses. The idea is that you're still offering the same price, but now he only gets to see 2 more cards instead of the 5 if he calls preflop.

        Wouldn't me betting into him post flop look more like a bluff since he was the pre-flop aggressor?
        Doesn't matter if it looks like a bluff if he can't call (or feels like he can't).
        4 Time Bracelet Winner


        Comment


        • #5
          Good points. I'm being results oriented in my thinking. I now know that he had A,K so there are very few cases where he's going to fold to a post flop shove. At least I have another option for the future when facing a similar decision.

          Thanks again for your feedback.
          4 Time Bracelet Winner


          Comment


          • #6
            He might fold AK on that flop. AQ, KQ, QJ, QQ, AA, KK, JJ, TT etc. all beat him. I mean, I probably don't fold for such a small portion of my stack, but maybe he folds unimproved.
            4 Time Bracelet Winner


            Comment


            • #7
              I agree that calling, then check/folding is what you don't want to do.
              You need to either shove or fold it preflop and with that few chips left, I'd be shoving it.... especially if the opp was stealing prior to this, as he may have been raising light. If you call, then you should shove immediately.

              With your opp's stack, they're probaly calling almost anything, hoping to have 2 live cards against you. Unfortunately, they had you dominated.
              Super-Moderator



              6 Time Bracelet Winner


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by oriholic View Post
                No, calling and check/folding the flop is the only thing you CAN'T do here. You can fold, you can shove, you can call and shove any flop since you will have a perfect stack size for it (stop and go play).

                Depending on your reads any of those three are viable options. Also, what's the prize structure like at this point? Mostly I'd plan on getting it in. If not preflop then calling and shoving the flop as a stop and go is a nice option as you give bad odds to unimproved hands, when they'd all be getting good odds preflop.

                He should never be folding preflop after raising you, but postflop you can cause him to make a mistake by calling with worse or folding better (depending on his tendencies).
                ^^^This
                Head Live Trainer
                Check out my Videos

                4 Time Bracelet Winner



                Comment


                • #9
                  The villain was in cutoff not the button. That changes hand ranges slightly....

                  Also, for this kind of hand we are basically analysing your preflop play so better to not show the villain's hand and the results.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RockerguyAA View Post
                    The villain was in cutoff not the button. That changes hand ranges slightly....

                    Also, for this kind of hand we are basically analysing your preflop play so better to not show the villain's hand and the results.
                    Hmm, good catch. I should have reviewed the hand before posting to ensure all my details were correct. I was focused on the short stack during the hand and expected a shove from him so I guess I skewed my own recount.

                    Also, am I supposed to post a partial hand history in cases like this?

                    Thanks
                    4 Time Bracelet Winner


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jcrondps View Post
                      Also, am I supposed to post a partial hand history in cases like this?

                      Thanks
                      From 'Hand Analysis How To' sticky:
                      3 Cover your hand and hide the results – refrain from posting the results as they can influence how people approach to the hand which is counterproductive. Remember that when playing poker you should never be result oriented.
                      Most people don't generally go through the trouble of removing the results.... but it is often a good idea to do it. This type of hand especially so because everything is based on the preflop hand range your applying to the opponents (not what two cards they actually had).

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X

                      X Cookies Information

                      We have placed cookies on your computer to improve your experience on our website. You can change your cookie settings at any time. Otherwise, we'll assume you're OK to continue.