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PLO .1/.25 cash game river play

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  • PLO .1/.25 cash game river play

    Hi all, Following hand from a PLO game this evening, main concern is the River. Big question is whats the thinking when he overshoves? Am i right to call there most of the time or is it more likely a shove there is the nuts? Should I have led with the small bet on the river to begin with? Until this point player had been playing post flop pretty passively but only a sample size of 30 or so hands at that point, later went on to be more aggressive.

  • #2
    Originally posted by OMGCBF View Post

    Hi all,

    Following hand from a PLO game this evening, main concern is the River.

    Big question is whats the thinking when he overshoves?
    He played the hand quite badly really.

    I suspect his intent was to use ANY "scare card" as a bluff shot against you.

    Based upon the strength of the hand you palyed, I'd suspect that you were showing a pretty tight VPiP?

    If that is the case, then he may have taken the shot in hopes you were enough of a nit to muck.

    Originally posted by OMGCBF View Post
    Am i right to call there most of the time or is it more likely a shove there is the nuts?
    Your hand's strength on the flop and on the turn is enough to make your bets there good ones.

    That bloats the pot quite a bit.

    It is really, really Villain dependant on how often this will be the nuts (his C/R river jam).

    Things like how aware is the villain to your play style and potential "tightness"...
    How bluff-y the villain is...
    How much he likes to chase his draws (especially back door re-draws)...

    All these have to be observed to really quantify how often this is some weak bluff attempt (anything but the pure nuts is a bluff ersus you), and how often this is the goods.

    Originally posted by OMGCBF View Post
    Should I have led with the small bet on the river to begin with?
    It was probably your small bet that GOT you this jam; without it, he probably jsut gives up on his missed draws. Fact is that 1/3rd pot bet may have looked like an open door to winning the pot he must have known he had no other chance to win.

    If the villain has shown a propensity to do this, or even if your TABLE has shown that people will fold to river bluffs, then I'd be way more inclined to make the crying call with 2nd nuts.

    I do nto see anything entirely wrong with leaidng to induce unless you DO feel there is a strong chance you'll only get called (or raised) by the nut flush. Afterall, I'd be inclined to think that a Villain who plays this passively early in the hand held a draw which got there BEFORE the river more often than a nut draw that hit. If he had hit prior to the riv, he is on a straight that you now beat, so value betting something is really not bad at all.

    Again though, a lot of this devolves to your read on the villain.


    Originally posted by OMGCBF View Post
    Until this point player had been playing post flop pretty passively but only a sample size of 30 or so hands at that point, later went on to be more aggressive.
    To be "sure" in calling or folding or whatever here, you do need more info than this; but I'm sure you realize that or this hand wouldn;t be here.

    Overall though, about the only way you are beaten on the river is if the Villain had flopped 2 pair with the A hi back door draw, then his off cards made him a straight, or at least a BETTER 2 pair. That is a pretty narrow range to sweat about when you make 2nd nuts on the river, but then hands like this, and losses they MIGHT bring (if villain had held the nut flush) are the reason I think playing PLO is like gouging out your eyes with dull spoons!

    On the face of it though, considering your minimal info on the villain, I think you certainly made the right decision in calling, and that your lead bet on the river was well designed to get a bit more value in from a Villain's crying call.

    Had you more info, especially info leading you to believe the villain would have the nut fluh more often if he jammed, then your river bet isn;t as good...but that wasn;t the case.

    Sometimes ya just gotta gambooooool on da 2nd nuts...even in PLO!
    Double Bracelet Winner

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    • #3
      I like the token value bet on the river, I think it's perfect in this spot as the villain is not likely to have a hand strength to call a big bet but will call the token value bet with 2 pair type hands, and you leave him room to make a play at the pot he expects to succeed a high % of the time (which is what happens). If he made a smaller bdf he may raise for value too, although that's not really good but players will do it. So I think token value bet/call jam is perfect. If he happens to have the back door nut flush when you have the 2nd nut flush, just ul.
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      • #4
        I'm not a PLO man, so I'm looking for rather than offering advice. Should the villain even have been in this hand. And if I'm right in thinking the answer is no, is his action on each street further compounding an initial poor decision?

        Oh. Whilst I understand it's just one of many factors influencing the play, I'm obviously looking for an answer based purely on the cards.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Darkman61 View Post
          I'm not a PLO man, so I'm looking for rather than offering advice. Should the villain even have been in this hand. And if I'm right in thinking the answer is no, is his action on each street further compounding an initial poor decision?

          Oh. Whilst I understand it's just one of many factors influencing the play, I'm obviously looking for an answer based purely on the cards.
          Villain's hand is somewhat marginal intrinsically, but it's fine to open the cut off with in a 5 handed game.
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