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more value????

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  • more value????

    could i get more value out of this!! grey coboy seems a little laggy player who limps a lot and the other is more of a tight player. don't have a good read because of the lack op post flop action!!

    PokerStarsspel #66242896009: Toernooi #422952748, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level III (40/80) - 19/08/2011 20:25:24 CET [19/08/2011 14:25:24 ET]
    Tafel '422952748 53' 9-max Plaats #1 is de button
    Plaats 1: for98765 (1550 in chips)
    Plaats 2: GoodDayToday (1160 in chips)
    Plaats 3: 77wopke77 (1680 in chips)
    Plaats 4: Pluto05 (1330 in chips)
    Plaats 5: jonyx22 (1400 in chips)
    Plaats 6: kobold861 (3190 in chips)
    Plaats 7: gOOnix (1500 in chips)
    Plaats 8: greycowboy (3380 in chips)
    Plaats 9: murmur666 (1690 in chips)
    GoodDayToday: zet small blind 40
    77wopke77: zet big blind 80
    Gedeeld aan 77wopke77 [Qh 9c]
    Pluto05: foldt
    jonyx22: foldt
    kobold861: foldt
    gOOnix: foldt
    greycowboy: callt 80
    murmur666: foldt
    for98765: callt 80
    GoodDayToday: foldt
    77wopke77: checkt
    *** FLOP *** [Qc 9h Qs]
    77wopke77: checkt
    greycowboy: bet 80
    for98765: callt 80
    77wopke77: callt 80
    *** TURN *** [Qc 9h Qs] [Ah]
    77wopke77: checkt
    greycowboy: checkt
    for98765: checkt
    *** RIVER *** [Qc 9h Qs Ah] [Kh]
    77wopke77: bet 156
    greycowboy: callt 156
    for98765: raiset 164 naar 320
    77wopke77: raiset 1200 naar 1520 en is all-in
    greycowboy: foldt
    for98765: foldt
    De niet-gecallde bet (1200) is geretourneerd aan 77wopke77
    77wopke77 won 1316 van pot
    77wopke77: laat hand niet zien
    *** SAMENVATTING ***
    Totale pot 1316 | Rake 0
    Board [Qc 9h Qs Ah Kh]
    Plaats 1: for98765 (button) foldde op de River
    Plaats 2: GoodDayToday (small blind) foldde voor de Flop
    Plaats 3: 77wopke77 (big blind) won (1316)
    Plaats 4: Pluto05 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
    Plaats 5: jonyx22 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
    Plaats 6: kobold861 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
    Plaats 7: gOOnix foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
    Plaats 8: greycowboy foldde op de River
    Plaats 9: murmur666 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)

  • #2
    2 spots I can see that might put more value in for you is lead betting that turn, and using a different bet sizing on the river.

    Lt's go thru it street by street...

    Look at your flop:

    You hit da noots.

    The only hands there which are drawing to run you down are AA/KK, and each of those have only 2 outs to take the lead. Also, all Q's with a kicker T+ have 3 outs against you; but since you hold a Q and there are 2 on the board, you are "blocking" the chance anyone else has a QT+ here.

    In spots like that, where your hand is definately not vulnerable to a lot of suck out chances, you can be better served checking in hopes an opponent improves so he feels he "catches up" in the hand if you only have a Q.

    If you were to lead bet here, the fact you hold the blocker Q means you are a lot more likely to see anyone w/o a Q fold, thus adding you NO value. Even a SMALL BET might seem "suspicious", and about all you could expect to call are 9's or other Q's. This all means leading NOW is really not likely to gain you much alue at all (unless you read the villains as looooooose callers), and the fact you check may well get you calls on later streets when villains do "improve".

    So your check is fine.


    That A is a pretty good card actually for you to lead small here really, say 1/3rd to 1/2 pot (try to stay as close to a STANDARD C-Bet as possible for you though).

    The reason this is a good time to bet is:

    That card means any aces have now paired.
    It means any 9 with a weak kicker MIGHT feel he picked up "kicker protection" for his 2 pair hand.
    It means a flush draw in hearts might call a small bet thinking he has implied odds against you.


    A lot of those hands which might CALL, may not BET.

    An Ace that paired may still 'fear" a Q.
    A 9 may call a small bet in case you are bluffing the ace hit, but probably cannot bet into possible trips and an over.
    A flush draw only has 1 card to come, so with 2 opponents in this is a risky semi-bluff to try running.

    Of course there is no guarentee that a bet here WILL add value for you; both villains might fold right now. The more likely they are to fold with good discipline, the less likely you would be to lead bet now, while the more likely they are to call a little too loosely, the more likely you;d be to bet. Those are read based thoughts though...


    Ok, last chance to get ANY MORE value into the pot, and you take it. You lead for 156, which is just a little bit (36 chips) over half pot. That is really a good bet sizing amount, and by waiting to the river, you are almost sure to get calls from a wide range of pair hits.

    You do get 1 caller, then the other villain raises you just a little bit over a min raise. You then JAM.

    This is marginally BAD to do in this spot because you have put the villain to a 'test" for all his chips when he MIGHT not feel himself quite at a committment point. The Villain here has 400 of his 1550 start stack in though (25.8%), so he is CLOSE to a point he should go for all his chips if he is going to raise you at all, but the fact he only min raised you might mean he is NOT quite ready yet to go for all his stack. If he he isn't ready to play for stacks, all your bet does is let him off the hook...see?

    ...and if he IS ready to play for stacks, he may well have a hand like AA/KK/AQ/KQ and now be AHEAD of your Qs full of 9's.

    All this together means a jam over his slightly larger than min raise i pretty "value owning" for you: it is getting CALLED many times only by BETTER hands, and also costs you value because you induce him to make a "correct" play by folding worse hands than yours.

    Even lacking read info, I think your hand here is strong enough that you might have been better sered trying a more "non-standard" play. By this, I think you probably could have re-raised the raiser, to an amount anywhere from a MIN RR (484 to go), to maybe a max of around 750 (to go).

    Obviously, doing that means you ARE going to put the rest of your chips in if he comes over you again, but your hand is plenty strong enough to stand that sort of action; if he has spiked KQ/AQ/AA/KK, so be it.

    The key benefit of a re raise like this is it opens HIM up to making a "mistake" by failing to recognize the committing nature of your re-raise.

    - He may perceive your RR as "just trips", and call you on a straight.
    - He may mis-intrepret it as a weak value raise on a K or A only, and call you on the same sort of hand.
    - He may well see it as "weakness" and jam you holding a rivered straight.

    All these things are highly desirable for your boat, and all add good value for you in the hand if they happen.

    As played, your actions led him to make a CORRECT play, a fold, and this adds no value for you at all.

    Double Bracelet Winner


    • #3
      tnx i see!!

      have to take more notice in my betting structure lol



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