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pocket pair and getting slowplayed

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  • pocket pair and getting slowplayed

    (I tried loading this into the hand replayer but kept getting error messages so here it is in text format) This was early in a $1.11 50/50. After three players committed hara-kiri all in on the first hand, things tightened up, but the villain here seemed the loosest (and according to OPR the weakest) player left in. I put him on a pretty loose range when he called the preflop raise and after he checked to me I c bet without much thought. When he called I reckoned he could possibly have a 5 or more likely a 10 but also a good chance he was limping along with a medium-small pocket pair or even just 2 overcards. I was concerned about something higher than a Jack appearing on the turn that might put him ahead, so when the 6 came I felt confident I was very likely still ahead and bet again accordingly. I was thinking that with this bet, if he was just floating with a mediocre holding he would be getting close to committing all his chips if he called again. I didnt really stop to think he might be watching my bets with exactly the same thought. His bet on the river came as a surprise. It seemed unlikely the 2 on the river had helped him, but it was possible. Had he hit something or just been slowplaying me all along? Or could he have not improved and just decided the pot was so big that he was committed and might as well try and steal it? ########################################## PokerStars Game 60392226073 / Tournament Blinds : 20/40 ########################################## 7 players [SB] showakoi (1455) [BB] SSG. DBall (1335) [1] mnatalin (1905) [2] Haffertje (5895) [3] coelhojoli5 (1425) [4] mytton (1440) [But] Tjemp (1545) mytton Initial Pot: 60 mnatalin folds Haffertje folds coelhojoli5 folds mytton raises to 120 Tjemp folds showakoi folds SSG. DBall calls 80 ### FLOP ### Pot: 260 SSG. DBall checks mytton bets 160 SSG. DBall calls 160 ### TURN ### Pot: 580 SSG. DBall checks mytton bets 360 SSG. DBall calls 360 ### RIVER ### Pot: 1300 SSG. DBall is All in mytton ???

  • #2
    Obviously, pre-flop JJ is a perfectly reaosnable hand to open raise here. Your open raise was nicely sized.

    Your flop bet is also good, since it is sized well to help "define" your hand. The thing is, that flop is "scary" enough that you have to heed the info your bet gave you...

    When he flats, that is a pretty good indicator he may have hit this hard, especially if you have him on a WIDE start range. A lot of folks in these 50/50's LOVE to play "lookie-loo" poker, especially form the blinds. This means when he calls your well-sized flop bet, you gotta stop a moment and re-assess the strength of your hand.

    JJ still is ahead of a decent amount of the calling range he may have, but in the structure of this event, do you really "need" to find out to your detriment that he called in on a 5? I think your turn bet was not needed really, since you kinda should have been thinking "pot control".

    If he is "floating" you, then based on his turn bet size (behind a CHECK by you), you can decide if the risk is worth the reward of continuing here. Once you put the 360 bet in on the turn though, it is a little late- you've gotten about 45% of your chips in...

    I'll be honest, if you want to leave room to potentially get away from your JJ, you need to check this turn, and see how his betting develops.

    I hope you made the call, and I hope he rolled over just an AT, and not A5, 34, or TT...

    Because by that river, I think you are in too deep to fold.

    There are worse things than folding the potentially "best" hand to a highly aggressive and reckless bet, and one of those things is getting a large portion of your chips into the pot THEN folding to the aggressive (or reckless) bet. This is especially true in a very "flat" pay structure where deciding earlier to keep the pot small can leave you the possibility of folding, and moving on with a still "workable" stack.
    Last edited by JDean; Wed Apr 06, 2011, 05:09 PM.
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    • #3
      see above.
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      • #4
        Thanks for the detailed analysis, JDean.

        It was only in retrospect that I started to see that the question to ask about the hand wasn't should I call on the river or shouldn't I, but how did I get into such a tight spot on the river?

        I can see now that I was too eager to get the money in on the turn, and maintain 'momentum' in the hand, especially as I had the option of checking behind and keeping the pot size down as you suggest.

        At the time, when it came to the river, I did decide I was in too deep to fold, and with a heavy heart I called. He turned over K5 suited. He had fives all along. At the time I felt foolish for calling, and maybe I was, but as is now clear, my real mistake was earlier in the hand.

        The good news is that after this little disaster I managed to double my 105 remaining chips through a few times, eventually winning all these chips back, and finished in the money after all.

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        • #5
          Very nice to hear! Congrats!

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          • #6
            I agree with JD, check back this turn and call his river bet or you can value bet yourself if he checks again on the river.

            As played I think you have to call. His line makes no sense, I think you'll be good often enough vs. a bad player to make calling correct once you've bloated the pot with betting on all streets.
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            • #7
              also, make a note on him that he'll play any 2 suited cards, regardless of what type of gap they have. That kind of info can help you the next time you see him in one of those.
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