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down if flames in the storm

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  • down if flames in the storm

    My demise in "storm" Hope I did this link thing right. Reason: suggestions and CONSTRUCTIVE critisism wanted. (Without the consideration that the villian had aces, that I couldn't help). My reasoning at the time: The "villian" was a loose player. He/she had recently pushed unnecissarily, and called a push with kq. My plan was play tight, but super agressive when cards were there to justify it to build up stack and have at least a shot at the money. P.S. I tended to lay back to feel out the flop quite often. Should I have been more assertive pre flop. W/ cash games, its a given 2.5 -3.5x raise for me if I enter the pot unless Im in bb or in late position w/ a speculative hand with the exception if I'm stealing the blinds. But w/ tourneys it seems different for me, like I'm playing passive pre flop or something.

  • #2
    Not much to say here, I think. Preflop, you probably should have raised, but at least you didn't flat call out of position. On the flop, you made the advisable raise. The only problem is that you continued after being raised with only top pair/top kicker. The fact that the guy limped preflop should send off some warning bells. Not many, since passive players do it all the time. But maybe 5% or 10% of the time, I find that a UTG limp ends up being aces or kings. Add on to that the fact that all you have is top/top (I think of top/top as the absolute strongest of weak made hands), and you probably should have waited for a better spot to get your money in. I think your stack was probably deep enough.
    Last edited by PanickyPoker; Mon Mar 28, 2011, 10:56 AM.


    • #3
      I just Pokerstoved the situation, and you did not have enough equity to call if your opponent had anything that was top/top or better, despite having put about half your stack in. This was a messy situation, but I think you should have raised preflop, and if the guy backraised you, you should have folded. Given that you saw a flop, I think your raise was good, but I think you should have folded to the 4bet. That's just me. Some other people might have different opinions.

      Also, there's a hand analysis forum for this kind of thread. This will probably get moved there by one of the mods eventually. Just so you know if you can't find it.

      There was another Storm knockout thread that's near the top of the Hand Analysis forum right now. It's not totally similar to this one, but I think you might find it to be a good read.
      Last edited by PanickyPoker; Mon Mar 28, 2011, 10:59 AM.


      • #4
        I might have played this hand the same way. In fact, probably.

        Pre-flop raise might have saved you...villain might have shoved and put you off the hand.
        The A's ain't folding.

        My question is: would you be put off the hand by an aggressive raise pre or post by this player?

        Once that Q hits are you married to this hand?
        Last edited by Freckldgator; Mon Mar 28, 2011, 11:03 AM.


        • #5
          I agree w/PP...except for the preflop raise part...but i kinda suck w/that limited exp.has been that in any big and relatively small buy in tournys,too many ppl shvng(fish),and slow plyin(sharks)to do much raising during the first hr....std. poker play hasn't worked very well,early,in the skill league,or big,cheap,mtt's...risk/reward...hasn't payed,for me anyway....for me...1st hrw/a cpl exceptions)..fold,,fold,,,,fold....limp...hope...c atch/confirm(i'm best)...punish...or get the heck outa there....reload....lick wounds,wait for next shot...With that flop you make a good raise to his bet,leaves u 10BB(1 last move) if you can fold,with his all in,re raise,I'm puttin him on 2 pair,J9,or the ovr...and i'm getting away(hopefully)not easily though...................I made it to about 23k...and will do better next time.....GL to you


          • #6
            You all are completly right. The fact that there was over 100k players seemed to affect my play. Felt like I wasn't myself.
            Typically if I'm not like 90% sure that there's a bluff happening, I always stop and say wwwhoh horsie when something unexpected happens like a big raise especially when I have only a pair w/out a strong draw. Even if I did have best hand, I shouldn't have put my turney life on the line at that point.
            It's like I made up my mind to play a certain way before the game and it turned terriblye. Why I pushed there that I still don't know. Kinda like "I'm not takin no crap today" attitude and that was pointless. I guess I was a bit intimidated and subliminally overcompensated.
            To answer your question, and thanks for asking cause its making me really think about it, pre flop anything over 6 or 7 BB would have pot committed me, so I woulda laid it down and let someone else deal with this guy. I just put him on a ace rag or lower pair and shoved in defiance like "you're not gonna F with me!" Of course playing with emotion instead of logic never seems to have a good result in poker, huh.

            cheers. j.


            • #7
              ** Moved **


              • #8
                We only have 17 bb's folks, in a tournament stucture that sucks, raise/folding is a big waste of valuable ammo.

                Vs. an opponent who has demonstrated having no problem limping frequently and stacking themselves off with KQ preflop, I think we should be shoving AQ pre here over his limp. We have reasonable fold equity to leverage vs. the lower parts of his range, while still getting some calls from hands we dominate like KQ or AT. A shove should be massively +EV, and in this structure we need to accumulate some chips, we can't sit around folding strong hands in situations where they are likely to be the best hand.

                As played post flop you should commit for sure here. Panicky, of course our equity is bad vs. exactly AQ and all better hands, but it's not so bad when you include hands in his range we're beating on the flop. Based on the description of the villain I'm 100% sure this player type will limp with say QJ and then stack himself off post flop with it. I went out of the Storm vs a similar type opponent when I c/r shipped a J high flop with KJ and the guy snapped his stack in with J8 (and spiked an 8 to draw out on me). The play is atrocious in an event like this, and the structure is so poor, you can't make top/top on a 17 bb stack, proceed to put a bunch of chips in the pot, and then fold. .
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                • #9
                  Reshipping preflop makes sense, but can we ever expect the villain to hold a worse hand than AQ if they jam the flop? If they're playing bad, then sure, I guess. But if the message we're getting is that we're beat, and the equity isn't there, wouldn't it be correct to fold? I know that putting in half your stack and folding is bad (and wouldn't be an issue if the hero reshipped preflop), but it doesn't look like a good bluffing spot for any decent villain.



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