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Wich Method?

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  • Wich Method?

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    Wich Method?
    « on: Today at 02:26:25 PM »

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    Ok here goes, i havnt had much time to play poker, so ive been doing a hour a day just looking at strategy, my background has been 45man turbos, with good results, with not having much time for poker i want a fast version game to play because of time restrictions, i opted to study Super Turbos on FT, basically its a 10bb starting stack, so its a push fold stt.
    My question is, i always use holdem resources for turbo tournaments, BUT i thought i would try different resources for hand ranges, hence here is the problem, and an example of this is the hand ranges.

    All hands are 10% ranges

    POKERSTOVE = 88+ A9S+ AJ+ KTS+ KQ QTS
    SKLANSKY-CHUBUKOV = 55+ A8S+ AT+
    SKLANSKY-MALMUTH = 88+ ATS+ AJ+ KTS+ KQ QTS+ JTS
    PROPOKERTOOLS = 77+ A9S+ AJ+ KTS+ KQ QJS
    HOOD-STOX = 77+ A9S+ AT+ KJS+

    Now in my opinion thats a rather confusing range distribution, the wider the range the worse it gets!!!!
    So in everyones opinion, what is the correct range software to use and why?

    thx shane

  • #2
    There are 1326 possible pre-flop hands. There are 6 ways to make a each pair, 4 ways to make each suited hand and 12 ways to make each unsuited hand. So for a 10% range you need 132 hands. The ranges you listed vary in the number of pairs, aces and Broadway connectors.

    Depending on my opponent I make adjustments of that nature most of the time. Some people prefer small aces over mid connectors a d small pairs. In my pre-DOJ intrusion days, small buyin players prefer aces more and as you went up in buyin small pairs and connectors become more common.

    One caveat, don't waste time worrying about a 10% range in short stack super turbo games. As the hand range grows the differences between these sources will diminish quickly as the larger the range the lower number of ways to make that range.
    Last edited by TrumpinJoe; Fri Nov 29, 2013, 11:56 PM.

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    • #3
      I appreciate your responce, but why is there a difference in hand ranges for each software?

      Why isnt there a universal range for all hands?
      Wich hands are actually the most profitable when theres a degree of difference between ranges?
      How can you assign different villians push ranges for calling when theres a difference in software?

      I just find it intriguing as to why these popular software ranges differ really, and wich one in a bubble should we use to determine our actions, for pushing or calling pushes, in a nutshell we should use our own iniative to solve these solutuions by taking notes on our villians ranges.
      Maybe taking notes is more important than using actuall software ranges?

      thx

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      • #4
        There are as many ways to assign relative hand values as there are people and situations to consider. Poker is a game of situations and cards are only one part and they are only have meaning if the hand goes to showdown. In the games you're studying your only getting in when you plan to showdown however, but the above still applies.

        Each of those are legitimate ranges. In your game I'd prefer Hood-Stox as it has tbest combination of high cards. YMMV however.

        Good Decisions.

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        • #5
          I agree with the you on the hood-stox range, in my opinion pocket pairs go up in value along with high cards, the 10% range was just an example.
          Thx for your input joe.

          What is a good equity range to call all-ins? I tend to go with 55% equity against a percieved range?
          Last edited by ImpactPoint; Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:31 AM.

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          • #6
            The ranges differ according to the situation and game format.
            Some hands play best with deep stacks and in multiway pots (e.g. Sklansky's fixed-limit hand rankings, or Pokerstove's "equity vs 3 other hands" ranges), other hands play best heads up, all in pre-flop (Chubakov's unexploitable ranges, or the Nash GTO equilibrium).

            In turbo short-stack situations, where you're shoving pre, the value of pairs, big aces and suited Broadways have slightly more value than they do in multiway pots where there will be post-flop action. (Pocket deuces is easy to play multiway, when you're set-mining, but it's almost never going to be good at showdown in a 4-way pot unless it improves).

            I think it's useful to run some equity calcs yourself to find out. Pull up Pokerstove/Equilab and create a 10% "calling range" for a villain in a SnG.

            Let's say you go with 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, AJo+, KQo

            Now run some specific hands against that range. For example:
            22 has 40% equity.
            KTo has 35%.
            98s has 34%.

            So, if you expect villain is calling with 10% of hands, you'd prefer to have 22 over A7o or 98s. (Note that 98s is literally a worse hand than KTo - it's nine high! - but it does almost as well as KTo against a 10% calling range.

            Now create a wider calling range, of say 20%. Something like 22+, A5s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, A8o+, KJo+, QJo and run the calcs again.

            Just for the record, the "multiway" ranges built into Pokerstove/Equilab are quite unhelpful for shoving situations. Pocket deuces only just makes it into the top 60% on Stove, but would you rather go all in with 22 or the "supposedly stronger" T3s or Q6o? For my purposes, 22 just about creeps into the top 16% of shovable hands.
            Bracelet Winner

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            • #7
              There are three considerations:
              Pot odds
              Estimated equity
              Estimated equity uncertainty

              The pot odds need to be high enough to cover your equity with enough of an overlay (margin) to cover the uncertainty (variance). Then you have meta-game considerations as well usually TE (tournament equity) being the most prevalent. These become important in near the bubble and end.

              As always in poker the answer is "It depends."

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              • #8
                Thx for your responces guys, youve given me more than enough to do further study into these super turbos.

                Always good to get insights into your thoughts.

                thx impactpoint

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