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How to get to final table in MTT's

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  • How to get to final table in MTT's

    Hi ,
    I got to the point where I get in the money reguraly but then it seems that I lose on any showdown ; if I'm short or medium stack and go all with AA,KK,AK and AO I lose to weaker or even marginal hands.What can I do ?

  • #2
    Play more marginal hands, so you can build a bigger stack.
    That will be risky though and you might get knocked out a lot more often.

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    • #3
      I agree with GamblingProp for standard MTT's.. you need to loosen up earlier. If a player blinds down to a small stack, even total trash hands will have the correct pot odds to be in a hand against a monster. If it's a league game.. different story, due to a totally different strategy needed. Good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24)
      Super-Moderator



      6 Time Bracelet Winner


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      • #4
        Originally posted by GamblingProp View Post
        Play more marginal hands, so you can build a bigger stack. That will be risky though and you might get knocked out a lot more often.
        Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
        I agree with GamblingProp for standard MTT's.. you need to loosen up earlier. If a player blinds down to a small stack, even total trash hands will have the correct pot odds to be in a hand against a monster. If it's a league game.. different story, due to a totally different strategy needed. Good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24)
        Sorry guys, but it seems to go against the poker book of teachings...lol, where you need to play tight in the first third of the tournament, wait for opportunities and be very patient. You then open up in the second third

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
          Sorry guys, but it seems to go against the poker book of teachings...lol, where you need to play tight in the first third of the tournament, wait for opportunities and be very patient.
          You then open up in the second third
          By earlier, I mean the 2nd third.. instead of just at the end.

          John (JWK24)
          Super-Moderator



          6 Time Bracelet Winner


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          • #6
            I disagree with everyone!

            Accumulate chips at every opportunity BUT you have to have a feel for the table and players.

            MTTs are like a boxing match, you spar at the start to get a feel and go to war later but if you already know an opponent then why spar
            Bracelet Winner

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            • #7
              "You always lose" this is impossible in the long run I can assure you say you get your money in as 75% favourite over a very long term you will indeed win 75% its just that over the very short term luck can play a factor so the people getitng it in behind can and will win(and somehow the human brain remembers the bad stuff and overlooks the positive times when you win (as when you win you expected to win probably a higher % thanyou should so your not surprised at all with winning )

              Lets say your flipping so its 50/50 whether you win or lose

              Get a coin(this is boring to do but try it you might be surprised @ results) and toss the coin 100 tiems noting whenever it lands on heads

              100 is not a large sample but you cant be tossing 1000's coins all day

              After the 100 you will be very very close to 50/50 and the more you do it(ie the long term) it will converge on exactly 50/50 (assuming its a pure random toss and a fair coin)

              Before it converges (wont get technical and go into standard deviations) so the shorter term results will fluctuate and vary and this is called variance

              A quicker way would be to get 100 coins throw them on floor and count and as they are all mutually exclusive and independent events it will still work ie whether the first coin lands on heads or tails has no bearing on whether the next 1 lands on heads or tails

              So yes you have more than probably been running bad and getting unlucky with the allins but you are due for some good luck soon

              What I dont understand however is why it seems to come in waves ie you can have a whole month of seemingly running bad and then run like a boss for a while

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              • #8
                Originally posted by oana1717 View Post
                Hi ,
                I got to the point where I get in the money reguraly but then it seems that I lose on any showdown ; if I'm short or medium stack and go all with AA,KK,AK and AO I lose to weaker or even marginal hands.What can I do ?
                You're probably playing too tight overall, meaning you'll be short-stacked in the later stages, which means your shoves are more likely to get called, so your big hands will be more vulnerable. If you're short, then losing a race will cost you your tournament life. If you're more aggressive in the bubble period, you'll often have a stack that can withstand a hit when you lose a flip.

                I'd recommend you go to Live Training sessions by the likes of Chewme1 and ahar010. You'll see them being very aggressive when the blinds get big; shoving all in with a wide range in order to steal the blinds and build a bigger stack. The push-fold stage of a tourney is crucial. At the lowest stakes, in my experience, players aren't shoving light anywhere near often enough, but you have to take risks if you want to go deep. Play tight early, but ramp up your aggression when the blinds get big.

                Good luck!
                Bracelet Winner

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rolo834 View Post
                  What I dont understand however is why it seems to come in waves ie you can have a whole month of seemingly running bad and then run like a boss for a while
                  This is totally dependent on the phase of the moon, the alignment of the planets and the date, place, and time of your birth. umbup:umbup:umbup: P.S. I got this info from the Great Magnifico Himself. umbup:
                  3 Time Bracelet Winner


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                  • #10
                    hahhaha but i dont even know the time of my birth ...are the poker gods all knowing and all seeing ?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rolo834 View Post
                      What I dont understand however is why it seems to come in waves ie you can have a whole month of seemingly running bad and then run like a boss for a while
                      "Seems" is the operative word. The human brain has evolved very advanced pattern-detection abilities, as it is evolutionarily "useful" to spot that some things are bad for our health, and some are good. e.g. If your caveman tribe kept eating poisonous berries and dying, if you didn't spot the pattern and stop eating the poisonous berries, your tribe would go extinct.

                      Since pattern-detection is hard-wired into our highly-evolved brains, we therefore can't help but look for patterns, even when there aren't any! The human mind has a great deal of difficulty dealing with true randomness, such as the way the cards fall in poker. Instead, people resort to superstitions and hunches, or they visualise monsters under the bed, or Gods in the sky.

                      I find it really interesting how "natural" cognitive biases can lead us to make incorrect decisions, but everyone suffers these biases to one extent or another. Seeing patterns among randomness is called the "Clustering Illusion".
                      See the following wikipedia pages for more info on some cognitive biases that many poker players struggle with:

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect
                      Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:02 AM.
                      Bracelet Winner

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                      • #12
                        You can't FT a MTT (1000+ players) without picking up hands and running good to a certain extent.

                        You just have to make the most of the opportunities presented, and if everything comes together then there is not reason you can't FT a big MTT. However, playing 50 or so MTTs then complaining about not once FTing is a bit stupid.

                        Some pros go thousands of tourneys without final tabling, so i'd suggest to put in heaps of volume and eventually it will happen.

                        Of course, playing a weak/tight ABC game will make it hard to go further than a min cash. Abusing the bubble, and building your stack in the mid stages of an MTT is what can propel you to a deep run.

                        Remember, the guys with the high ROIs go for the win, because of the top heavy pay structures. This means taking flips and risking your stack around the bubble to give yourself the best chance possible
                        Last edited by birdayy; Sun Sep 15, 2013, 09:32 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Hi,oana.

                          "How to FT MTT's?"

                          That's a good question.

                          Well,as you can see we've already seen responses from JWK,Sandtrap,Ovalman,Arty,Gambling Prop and birdayy...that's a pretty good group of very sound poker minds and they can't really come to anything approaching a consensus on how to best run deep and FT large field MTT's and there's a reason that they can't...because there isn't any magic formula or set in stone plan for doing this.

                          It's not like cash games,or single table and smaller field SNG's where certain tactics will garner you more positive results so long as you don't offset them with leaks elsewhere.

                          MTT's are a different animal altogether and the simple truth is that to run deep you're most likely going to have to be able to play TAG and LAG both,often switching from one to the other several times along the way. Maybe even mix a period of maniac and NIT in there as well.

                          Reason being is that it's going to take so many hands,in some many different scenarios due to stack size depth versus the blinds,effective stack sizes versus your opps,table dynamics (tight table,loose table,pretty standard mix but a spewy player in the mix...WHERE is the spewer in relation to us position wise...),info you may have on a player or more than one at a table,YOUR image (say you land on a table and have no history with anyone...and right off the bat you get dealt two great hands in EP and raise them both...now table is probably seeing you as aggro...and may react to that impression...how do YOU use this to your advantage...). TONS of different situations and factors go into the mix when we're playing an MTT and running deep.

                          Be flexible in your game,be keen on situational awareness (being just one step ahead of most of your tables in an MTT at this skill can reap huge benefits) and keep your wits about you no matter what.

                          These are the three biggest things to achieving MTT success in my opinion.

                          Oh,and make sure that you are properly bankrolled to play MTT's in the first place,so that you CAN play them properly to begin with instead of focusing on min-cashes.

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                          • #14
                            Oh, and don't late reg. Seriously. The amount of fish that spew off 150bb stacks with marginal holdings in the first few levels make it super profitable to play the MTT from the beginning.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for this very informative thread and well explained responses from PSO's different points of view.

                              Running good now and got a very practice yesterday in the Big Bang during near bubble period as a chip leader but made a mistake when i think twice shoving my 33 open. I shoved i think, 2 or 3 previous hands and got afraid of overdoing it and minimum raise and one of the blinds call and 2 broadway card on flop and decided to check it down and looking for showdown but oppo show weakness in me and he value bet the river, of course i fold and he show 22

                              Guess if you have stacks to spend, better be the aggressor. I tend to chips save on critical stage of MTT and give away 2-3 winning hands.

                              Hope i run good as well today and make all good decision and have enough cushion to withstand the bad beat along the way.

                              Good Luck to all grinders.

                              PH
                              .
                              Last edited by PINOY_HITMAN; Sun Sep 15, 2013, 11:14 AM.

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