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AK over rated

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  • AK over rated

    just wondering are any of you guys having as much bad luck with AK offsuit as me i win with about 1 in 6 and when your 3 betting and re raising to lose the hand so often it puts a big hole in your profits im actually 8 dollars down with them and 7 up with AK suited, so whats your thoughts?

  • #2
    Hi mike!

    There are so many things that need to be taken into account here that it's not possible to answer you. The table dynamics, stack sizes, player tendencies, bet sizes, etc... all of this must be taken into account and they will vary each and every time.

    John (JWK24)
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      well im not calling big raises with them if thats what you mean because il put them on aa kk or ak which is pointless getting involved in normally il 3 bet and get called or re raise a 3 bet and the flop always comes 10s and under and il get beat by jumk like 9 10 suited or something that ppl shoudnt be calling my re raises with, i dnt expect to win 24/7 with ak or even AA but i should be turning over a profit when ive had 59 hands of ak off suit ive got more profit out of pocket 3s its ridiculous

      i had a hand earlier where villain raises so i re raised his 3bet 3x with AK he calls i hit top pair top kicker he raises a pot raise, so i figure he has pocket aces beacuse the other two cards were 3 and 8 and theres noway he would of hit them cus he was a fairly tight player so i called a ace hit the turn so i now know he has only 1 ace so im thinking im well ahead or we both got ak anyway it ends up with us both all in for him to turn over ace 3 suited to win with a full house which is fair enough but im thinking what the hell is he doing calling my re raise preflop with that hand when he was a tight player i dunno maybe he felt like gamble with a3 i can handle that loss but it just seems like im losing way to often with AK

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      • #4
        Hi mike!

        In the last example... what type of tourney was it or was it a cash table? What were the bet sizes, how many opps were in the pot and what were the stack sizes. It may have been the right play, it might have been the wrong one, but without this necessary info, the only answer I can say is... it depends.

        John (JWK24)
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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        • #5
          FWIW, I think AK is the most over-played and over-valued hand in cash games, especially in full ring microstakes games. In tourneys, where you're usually short-stacked, it's a true monster and you're often getting it in good (or at least flipping) if all the money goes in pre-flop. In cash games, not so much.

          I've been a winning player since basically day 1 of my "career", but I was actually losing money with AK for my first 20,000 hands. Partly this was because I was never winning races (i.e. just variance) but also I was getting my money in bad against nits that always had QQ+.
          In the long run, AK will typically win the pot 60-65% of the time you have it, but it's mainly only the small pots that you win, by stealing blinds or getting just one or two streets of value. If you find yourself in a big pot with AK and one pair, you're usually losing.

          I'd like to see hand history/replayer for the hand you posted, but I've learned to fold TPTK when getting heat, especially from nitty set-miners. On an A83 board, you're only getting raised by hands that beat you. Usually the nit will have a set, but (especially at 2NL/5NL) nits just love playing suited aces because they can make the nut flush, so A8s and A3s are often in their range, even in 3-bet pots.

          I think there might be a training video specifically about AK, so you might want to search the archives.
          Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Thu Apr 04, 2013, 12:41 AM. Reason: typo
          Bracelet Winner

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
            Hi mike! There are so many things that need to be taken into account here that it's not possible to answer you. The table dynamics, stack sizes, player tendencies, bet sizes, etc... all of this must be taken into account and they will vary each and every time. John (JWK24)
            Jw gives you the answer in this post, there is nothing else to consider but this post as JW correctly states. Personally, I would post some of these Ak hands you lose on in HA, . A lot of beats can be avoided with the right decision's , as Arty point's out and a common mistake is running into nits with hands like QQ. That in the past was often my down fall, not reading the table dynamics correctly. GL umbup:

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            • #7
              hi just came on for some reason i cant find my hands in the history but im sure il get some ak hands today so il post them up if i think there worth a look, anyway he had the biggest stack of 5 dollars on a 1c 2c table i had 2 60 odd, the bets pre flop got raised up to 18c by me he called then quickly pot betted, when some1 does a pot bet its normally top pair atleast but i wenrt folding AK yet as i said before if i was putting him on anything it was AA or AK but i felt il look at the turn and fold to a re raise if nothing helps my hand but when that ace came i was like im well ahead so im taking the lead on betting but it ended up all in by the river which is when he turned over a full house what i should of done was said to myself this is getting to exspensive for a 1 pair on these stakes but i collared him bluffing when he misses the flop with a pot bet which probally helped in making me call but when the ace hit on the turn i was sucked in i wernt gonna fold lol.

              i dnt think i played it badly i got unlucky when that ace came out but as i said i can handle a loss like that its just im losing to often with them to ppl not even holding premium hands, i think il just bet less with top pair top kicker on a dry board and if i get a big re raise il just let them go il prob make alot more money by not losing so much on ak

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              • #8
                whats the chance of getting beat by this
                Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

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                • #9
                  The ace-king isn't over rated, but it is a dangerous hand. Top two cards makes it a strong hand pre flop, but once the flop shows, my win rates drop to 450. (See my continuing study of the group one and two hands in Stats to Drown In - Beginners section) If you don't pair, you are most likely drawing to an inside straight. Since any straight will be, at best, a one-card chase, the odds are around 16 percent. (4 outs times 4 = 16 percent.) Am sure somebody will have the actual numbers, but these are approximate. Those odds go down by half after the turn.

                  When it does hit, I find it a major chip winner in my SNG games. If I play it, it can become a major chip drain if it misses. You have to have the courage to pay for the flop and fold when you miss, no card hunts. Others say my poor play is the reason for the bad percentages. I just cannot hit the insider, second pair, or if suited, the nut flush. Also, chip players are more prone to chase, so the odds of another player winning goes up with each additional player.

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                  • #10
                    I think it is indeed overrated. AK is just too high cards and are even underdog even to small pairs.

                    It is a hand where you win small pots when you win and lose bigger pots when you lose

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      AK is definitely often overvalued. I found it was one of my biggest leaks. Though it shouldn't be a surprise that AKs does better. looking at 20000 hands from earlier this year where I lost big on AKo I was ahead with AKs. I now often fold to reraises with AK. I try to never go all in preflop with AK. And if it misses I am ready to fold.

                      I think of it as 'Ace Killer'. (to kill my tournament life if I play. it wrong)


                      If I am calling a short stack, say 2 to 1 or better and can hope for it to be heads up I will call with it it otherwise it's often not worth it.

                      Of course it should be played differently in cash games and tourneys depending on stack size, position etc.

                      To me AK is a claymore. it's a strong drawing hand

                      I love stealing blinds with it, and happy if they fold.

                      you would all have heard that ""its better to win a small pot than to lose a big one", well especially as far as AK goes I think it's better to win a small pot or fold than to RISK losing a big one by playing, what is after all only ace high with a strong kicker,too hard.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mike2198 View Post
                        whats the chance of getting beat by this
                        Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
                        Hi Mike, you ask what the chances of you been beaten on the full house you had. There was every chance you could be beaten, this is Omaha. I personally thought you play on this hand, was not good. Pre flop - limp Flop- Bet out utg with low pair on a heavy drawing board, call a raise and not considered the 3s on the flop. You fished Mike, looking to make a set of 5s giving you a full house. I was screaming at the screen when watching your hand to fold. I thought the opp had Ace diamonds to be honest. A 6d even better for him. But both of you completely fished. 1c - 2c blinds, just play text book, if you havent got it, fold it. Your preflop semi steal was terrible. The bet was to small for a steal. And at 1c 2 c the bet always seems small. Players do not realize what 3x the BB stand fors, they just see has 6c. NOt knowing that in poker terms, 3x could be 3k if the BB were 1k. What I am trying to say to you, is no matter what the buyin, play as if every single cent was a 1k chip. Have a respect for your 1c chips. Would you put 3k in real money ,on the flop in this hand, utg with only 55 in your hand? It starts to seem a different context. Gl MIke hope you undestand. umbup:

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                        • #13
                          yh i can see what your saying mace but let me tell you what i was thinking, so i limped low pockets which i know your sposed to raise if your first in the pot but i know with omaha you need a strong hand and the pot gets big anyway and everyone we call with anything on omaha anyway so i figured i would limp looking for a set or a straight, so when the flop came i had a straight draw so i done a small bet hoping to make a straight by the turn which i hit but then we had a flush there aswell so i checked the turn then called his tiny raise to make a full house on the river i was putting him on a ace flush so i checked hoping for a raise which was a peanuts raise by him and so i went all in because you can t be scared of straight flushes there so rare maybe not as much in omaha but still.

                          on that note do you raise all your pocket pairs in holdem? i normally limp low pockets and raise utg and fold to re raises

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mike2198 View Post
                            on that note do you raise all your pocket pairs in holdem? i normally limp low pockets and raise utg and fold to re raises
                            Hi Mike!

                            I'll gladly limp behind with low/mid pockets, but the one thing that I will not do is to open-limp. If I'm the first one into the pot, I'm raising or folding.

                            John (JWK24)
                            Super-Moderator



                            6 Time Bracelet Winner


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              cool yh it makes sense il have to change my game up abit then

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