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Confused

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  • Confused

    the lessons on poker basics on here are confusing, just the calculating outs and the 4x2 rule.

    Can someone give me some examples so i can actually ask questions as to why it is the way it is.

    it seems as in the calculation outs section, i add cards that they didnt add, and i have no idea why they wouldnt add them, it doesnt make any sense to me.

    and of course with that goes the 4x2 rule...

    ya it is "easy" to learn poker i keep reading, but it seems to not be, for me i guess.

    I hated poker before about a week ago, ill be honest, but it seems to be one of the few things that plays to my strengths, being reading people and baiting people...

    any help is appreciated.

  • #2
    I played gut feeling poker well before I could count my outs.

    While counting outs might seem important, I'd concentrate on hand selection and position first.

    It will come.
    Bracelet Winner

    Comment


    • #3
      hey thanks for the reply..

      i understand position playing and the difference in starting hands, monster vs strong...playing speculative hands in position

      which is why im askin about the outs and what not.....I would rather play for real money ( i am in the US so i would have to find a different site) because i played on some play money sites, but you got people going all in pre flop with a 5 and 2 off suit, and end up either buying the pot or just getting lucky, its annoying not playing with people that actually have a strategy..

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fon1cs View Post
        but you got people going all in pre flop with a 5 and 2 off suit, and end up either buying the pot or just getting lucky, its annoying not playing with people that actually have a strategy..
        Those people are everywhere. I've seen them anywhere from a freeroll to a $365 WSOP Circuit event. Just because it's real $$ doesn't mean the play will be any different.

        Honestly, you WANT them at your table... it's who you'll win your $$ off of.

        John (JWK24)
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


        Comment


        • #5
          lol you make a good point, im pretty sure i read that in the course somewhere too

          but before we delve off into off topic lol,

          anyone have any examples to run by me so i can ask specific questions as to why or why not?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Fon1cs View Post
            its annoying not playing with people that actually have a strategy..
            If you are looking for a really good play money game I would recommend joining the 'Tankers' home game club. There's lots of really good play money players there that take the game seriously. If you PM 'effsea' or 'JohnnyOak' they will be able to give you the details Raiser umbup:

            Comment


            • #7
              I didn't answer your question btw.

              How I work it:

              For a flush draw if I have have 2 suits and there are 2 on the board: I have 9 outs.

              Open ended straight draw, 8 outs.

              Gutshot, 4 outs.

              There are others.

              The 4/2 rule works but I try and count outs I need on the next street and not implied odds for tourneys because you ant to hit before you go broke
              Bracelet Winner

              Comment


              • #8
                You have Kh Jh ,and the board is As Td 2c . One of the four queens in the deck will make you a straight. If your opponent has a middle pocket pair, e.g. 9c 9h , then you have additional outs, as any king or any jack would give you a higher pair.


                ^an example from the training thing......Why are they calculating something that the avg person would have no idea about, it doesnt make sense

                unless im looking at these things completely differently than most people do, which i tend to do a lot......What is the point of mentioning something that we have no idea about (the opponents hand)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the info royal raiser

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In the hand above, it doesn't matter what your opponent has, it's what you need. You need a Q for the nuts which is the best hand so you count 4 outs.

                    You are 4 x 2 to hit on the turn which is 8, you can turn that into a percentage which is 8% or 1 in 12.

                    For implied odds you can work out the flop play to the river by multiplying by 4 which works out to 16%.

                    You can tweak these numbers by 1% for a more accurate calculation but I never have so don't worry about it at micro stakes(I should work on that really!)
                    Bracelet Winner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      so another words, if were to be playing and that ended up being my hand (K J) and that ended up being the flop

                      just fold eh...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        one thing that isn't explained clearly in the training is that when you're calculating outs, you're calculating what you need to make the BEST hand, not just any hand.

                        in nanonoko's video, he says "just always put the opponent on top pair (with one card on the board) and then work out what you need to beat that"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It depends on betting and how you read your opponent. It's generally a good idea to fold a 4 outer or less ie. gutshot but reads can change this.

                          I had a long message typed but you've made me think on how to express it so I deleted.
                          Bracelet Winner

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i think that was part of the problem, i was calculating ANY possible combination, and just didnt understand how they were arriving at the number they were arriving at.

                            thanks for that clarification evoke

                            I would guess that the strat you laid out is a generalization.......of course we would have to take into account our hand, position, betting....etc etc.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ovalman View Post
                              It depends on betting and how you read your opponent. It's generally a good idea to fold a 4 outer or less ie. gutshot but reads can change this.

                              I had a long message typed but you've made me think on how to express it so I deleted.

                              thanks for the help...

                              ya i tend to turn the norm upside down lol

                              as for the lingo.....gutshot? open end? and the similar terms, what exactly does that mean.

                              Comment

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