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Was this a bad beat?

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  • Was this a bad beat?

    Would you have called it? I took him for having AA or KK if I was unlucky. Instead, he rivers a flush!

  • #2
    Hi badman!

    I wouldn't classify this as a bad beat. Yes, at the flop I'd be ahead, but I'm only a 49.3% favorite to win the hand... so I will lose here more than I win.

    John (JWK24)
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      Right... Would you have called it with two pairs?

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      • #4
        I'd have mucked it, as I'd expect the opp to already have a straight the overwhelming majority of the time there, which leaves me 4 outs.

        John (JWK24)
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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        • #5
          Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
          Hi badman!

          I wouldn't classify this as a bad beat. Yes, at the flop I'd be ahead, but I'm only a 49.3% favorite to win the hand... so I will lose here more than I win.

          John (JWK24)
          You are more than a 49.3% fav in that spot, more like 59% (source: Odds Calculator)

          I would consider this to be a bad beat but not up there with the worst... opponent didn't have a made hand, sure, but he did have 13 outs to improve his hand so from his side of things, he is slightly behind (almost flipping) to a pair so he might have thought it was worth a shot.

          Personally I am worrying less about bad beats now than i used to. Fish will make fishy moves and you just have to live with it.

          For me however a bad-beat is when you are ahead for most of the hand preflop or flop mostly... and then your opponent sucks out on you on the river with a 2 outer to knock you out.

          AA vs 44 is a good example of a bad beat. Your opponent gets it in preflop and you are 80% fav to win the hand. The flop comes A-5-6.. you are now 95% fav to win. Your opp needs runner-runner 4s or runner runner straight to win.

          Turn comes a 7.. now its down to just 4 cards (the 8s) and he fills his straight and you are out.


          Another bad one... AA vs 22, 81% preflop again.
          Flop comes 8-4-5. 88% still to win, you are doing good.
          Turn comes 3, you just went down to 86% but still good.
          River comes A... now you filled trips but your opponent got their straight.


          These are 2 examples of hands where I feel I have a bad beat

          Both I am ahead a BIG amount before money gets in, often 80-90%. I remain fav at 75%+ the entire hand but then either a) I have a monster in say Trips and get outdrawn to a better hand b) I have the best hand and improve to something better like a flush, straight or Trips and in doing so it fills in my opponents hand... getting your straight card to solidfy your lead hurts when the same card also fills in a backdoor flush for your opponent.

          Its personal for each person i think... Phil Helmuth screams and shouts to complain if he gets a bad beat no matter what his opponent has... i have seen videos of him being up against opponents who got it in with a slightly weaker hand (ie 2nd two pair or 2nd trips) and win on the river for him to flip out.

          Other players refuse to accept bad beats as something that bothers them... they just play so much that they consider any beat to be the same and something they can just shrug of as part of the odds... if you are beat, you are beat it doesnt matter if it is a flip you lose with or a runner runner quads.

          If you wanna see a sick hand, search youtube for the Mizraki 2009 WSOP M/E FT .... boat vs boat hand where the lead for the hand changed dramaticaly on each street to the point where i think Mizraki and his opponent were 80% fav everytime a card was draw, swapping places... in the end it came down to a full house on the turn that then switched to another full house on the river for his opponent bettering his one.

          Not exactly a bad-beat because the favor between opponent changed at each card being drawn but an unbelievable hand to watch.

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          • #6
            @baud2death

            JdKh---49.28%

            8s7s---29.35%

            QcJs---21.37%


            FLOP---JcKsTs


            I'm thinking you did your calculation HU,it wasn't. This was a 3 way pot and you have to calculate all the hands equity. We're basing our judgements on what the odds were when the money went in and that has to include the QJ hand as well.

            To the OP'er it's NOT a bad beat,it IS badly played by all involved though,yourself included.

            You shouldn't be calling with KJo pre-flop to begin with,especially when a short stack is opening for 8x. After the flop...AQ,1010 and JJ are all easily in the range that players will flat call with pre at 2NL.Hell even KK for that matter as players are bad enough to try and make a hand like Kings into two 3's by playing "trappy" into a multi-way pot.

            The 8s7s shove with 2 cards to his/her flush is also standard at this level. And with an 8 as their high card in any possible flush it's really quite terrible,to be honest.

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            • #7
              A bad beat is losing to a flush when you both have aces, or losing with quad aces to a royal flush.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Guyguyson View Post
                A bad beat is losing to a flush when you both have aces, or losing with quad aces to a royal flush.
                Only if you were well ahead when the chips went in. If you were not ahead when the chips went in, these situations would not be bad beats either.

                John (JWK24)
                Super-Moderator



                6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
                  Only if you were well ahead when the chips went in. If you were not ahead when the chips went in, these situations would not be bad beats either.

                  John (JWK24)
                  Preflop shove so neither of us were ahead when the chips when in.

                  The quad aces was just a video I saw, poor guy probably thought he was going to stack a flush or full house. Might not be a bad beat just a bad time to get quad aces.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is a bad beat, ahead all the way till the river, one outer.

                    http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...531_D53D3D8DC7
                    Bracelet Winner


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                    • #11
                      Hello Badman,

                      I do not consider this to be a bad beat, I consider this to be bad play.

                      In the first instant calling the first raise, there was no pressure, I thought it was an easy muck.

                      If you was to play the hand, maybe a 3bet would of been better, using your position and isolating the play.

                      The flop comes, you could of been behind to a straight or a set.

                      So no , not a bad beat and I could not consider this as a bad beat as the first call was what created this situation.

                      gl

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by joy7108 View Post
                        This is a bad beat, ahead all the way till the river, one outer.

                        http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...531_D53D3D8DC7
                        Sorry to say this Joy, but I disagree, that is not a bad beat.

                        Again, this is exactly the same situation as Badman and the exact same leak.

                        Your failure to 3bet and isolate is what caused your problem.

                        Check, call shove, chasing a fishy draw when there's all ready a possible full house on the board?

                        That's not good Joy, I do know you are a winning player, and you will probably hate to have me as a critic.

                        Watch your hand again and see the problem you created yourself.

                        gl
                        Last edited by holdemace486; Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:03 PM. Reason: added word

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
                          Sorry to say this Joy, but I disagree, that is not a bad beat.
                          You've GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! The opp in the hand had only 1 way to win this hand, runner/runner. That's IT. Joy's an 82.677% favorite when the chips go in. That ABSOLUTELY qualifies for a bad beat.

                          John (JWK24)
                          Super-Moderator



                          6 Time Bracelet Winner


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
                            You've GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! The opp in the hand had only 1 way to win this hand, runner/runner. That's IT. Joy's an 82.677% favorite when the chips go in. That ABSOLUTELY qualifies for a bad beat.

                            John (JWK24)
                            Yeah gotta agree, if hitting a 1 outter isn't a bad beat nothing is. Although calling with AKs rather than 3 betting might not be the best move, depends on what joy was thinking really.

                            Also how likely is it that someone called with 97, 77 and flopped a full house? How likely is it that someone called with SCs and flopped a draw?

                            Theres 9 combos of pocket 7's they could have and only 7 9x combos and one 99 combo. for 17 combos of hands that could of made a full house there vs the 40 combos of suited connectors excluding anything lower that 54s and gapped connecors.

                            So it's at least 17:40 (40:17?) against them having anything that would of made that full house.
                            Last edited by Guyguyson; Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:59 PM.

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                            • #15
                              if joy had 3bet and then the AT may not of been in the pot to start with, and then check call an all in? chasing a draw when there was possibly better out there.
                              A donk bet was required on the flop, again the AT folds.

                              I still can not see this as bad beat, yes joy was ahead in percent on the call for the all in,

                              but they play that lead to that was not good imo.

                              Jw your bet would of been a raise pre-flop, the same as most players, limping is asking for trouble, is that not what you teach on PSO?

                              So how can a bad beat be perceived as a bad beat when the hand was not played correct to start with?.

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