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  • how come?

    how come when playing on pokerstars ace`s appear on the river far more than they would if the deck was random

  • #2
    One of the things you learn as a poker player is that our memories are somewhat faulty. We remember the unusual and forget the mundane. To illustrate this concept better I urge you to keep a record of your allins for a month then using Pokerstove or another equity tool compare your win % to your true expectation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Of all the leading online poker sites I have used in the past I have yet to come across one that takes the quality and security of it's Random Number Generator (RNG) more seriously. Check out this link of an independent audit that was carried out. http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/ Raiser umbup:

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by marty102 View Post
        how come when playing on pokerstars ace`s appear on the river far more than they would if the deck was random
        They can only replicate the randomness of the deck so much. Nothing is perfect, and for them to admit that there is an issue or the possibility that there is with the randomness of cards being dealt would create a very negative feeling among players around the world, so they come up with words like "variance" and tell you "studies" have been done on this subject till the cows came home or until they were in blue in the face and are completely and 100% sure their software is in no way shape or form anything but random and glitch free to create such occurrences from ever happening, I am most certain this post will be looked at and hopefully responded to with great denial that anything could be wrong with their precious site's software and most likely with the usual comebacks when someone goes against the grain "don't like it here, don't play here",or some form of witty sarcasm to silence the ones that speak up about this subject...you will see exactly what I mean by the negative responses this post will most likely get, silence speaks volumes also ..so the best thing to do is to bend over and take it like 99% of the newer players that they figure are to stupid to be questioning the integrity and honesty of this sites software.

        To think that there might be even the slightest possibility of this being true and not believing it to be so in my mind is an admission of complete denial.

        Just keep playing and try not to let it get to you

        Comment


        • #5
          Derty,

          You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. However it is only an opinion. You have not provided any supporting evidence on your behalf. Had there been a flaw in the RNG don't you think it would have been exposed after 70 billion hands? Plenty of people have tried to do such and came up short. Even our very own hedgehog began to keep records of his group I and II hands to prove a bias existed and wound up proving that the results matched expectations.

          While you are entitled to your opinion you will not find many takers without proof to accompany your statements.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
            Derty,

            You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. However it is only an opinion. You have not provided any supporting evidence on your behalf. Had there been a flaw in the RNG don't you think it would have been exposed after 70 billion hands? Plenty of people have tried to do such and came up short. Even our very own hedgehog began to keep records of his group I and II hands to prove a bias existed and wound up proving that the results matched expectations.

            While you are entitled to your opinion you will not find many takers without proof to accompany your statements.
            I am going to quote, JDean from the other day, and respond to your typical and what I believe to be a very well rehearsed answer with a BLAH BLAH BLAH.

            Comment


            • #7
              why do people who think it is rigged, fixed etc still keep playing here then?

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Marty,

                Welcome to the forum! First of all I think a lot of your experience is coming from the Open League and God knows I have been there or on earlier leagues on PSO that were played in a similar way.

                I have to thank Darkman (you will see him pop up here from time to time if you want to learn the game and stay on the forum) for the advice that trying to play proper poker in an Any Two Card freeroll was a complete waste of time and off course I was under the illusion that I could play poker

                I whinged and I cried about suckouts, Aces, Kings, twos, fives, nines, any card that beat me on the river. I came to believe that the site, God, luck, and anything else that would take the blame away from myself, was the reason I was losing.

                The fact is that when I was shown how I should play in this freeroll environment, I began to prosper, I began to win and run deep.

                Off course I thought I could take this new found knowledge and enter any MTT/SNG and run deep or win it. Sorry to say that life just does not work like that. Poker is a game of learning; first you learn and beat the first level and then you move onto the next and do the same.

                There is no doubt that you will come across every type of situation and suckout that you believe to beyond reasonable probability, but unless you accept these, you will never develop as a poker player.

                The fact is that at any given time there are over a quarter of a million players playing on over 50,000 tables at Pokerstars so whether it is a freeroll, low limit cash, high limit cash, SNGs small or huge buy ins, or MTTs with 10,000 players plus for a 1.10$ buyin or a 215$ buyin, there a humungous amount of players who get pooped upon from a great height by the run of the cards. Winning, even average players, accept it and move onto the next hand because they understand you can always be beaten unless you have the absolute nuts; players who expect that the best hand should hold from pre, the flop or the turn, every single time for them cry out in disgust that it is rigged against them.

                I am by no means a winning player; I lose patience and self control and play really silly when I know I should fold; it is not the cards that beat me nor the other players, it is myself!!!! I think i can deny the odds or probabilities, I think I can slow play my set on the turn with three clubs on the board and it should not hit, I give people the odds to call, I bet size incorrectly, I make all manner of mistakes, and sometimes a little voice says "rigged" but if i am honest i know it is just my bad poker, and if I refuse to see that then it will continue to be bad and I should give up.

                Pokerstars spent a huge amount of effort and money showing that it is all above board, they are professionally and impartially audited, numerous players show stats on their hands all over the internet showing that everything runs to normal probability and mathematics.

                Now you can choose to believe that, or you can can choose to believe those that say it is rigged. Type it into google and some guy will ask you to give him 200$ to beat the system cos he knows the secret of the logarithms, type the same site into google and you will see 100,000's complaints on people being scammed by those that know it is rigged.

                No one and I mean no one has been able to present any data that says anything other than that the Pokerstars RNG is straight down the line. Now if anyone can provide anything more than pure supposition, "I know this or I know that", provide proof, because proof is a logical and provable concept, then really they are only wasting not just my time, your time, the site's time, but everybody elses time that is coming here to learn to play and enjoy poker.

                Cheers,

                TC
                Last edited by topthecat; Mon Nov 28, 2011, 01:00 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by topthecat View Post
                  Hi Marty,

                  Welcome to the forum! First of all I think a lot of your experience is coming from the Open League and God knows I have been there or on earlier leagues on PSO that were played in a similar way.

                  I have to thank Darkman (you will see him pop up here from time to time if you want to learn the game and stay on the forum) for the advice that trying to play proper poker in an Any Two Card freeroll was a complete waste of time and off course I was under the illusion that I could play poker

                  I whinged and I cried about suckouts, Aces, Kings, twos, fives, nines, any card that beat me on the river. I came to believe that the site, God, luck, and anything else that would take the blame away from myself, was the reason I was losing.

                  The fact is that when I was shown how I should play in this freeroll environment, I began to prosper, I began to win and run deep.

                  Off course I thought I could take this new found knowledge and enter any MTT/SNG and run deep or win it. Sorry to say that life just does not work like that. Poker is a game of learning; first you learn and beat the first level and then you move onto the next and do the same.

                  There is no doubt that you will come across every type of situation and suckout that you believe to beyond reasonable probability, but unless you accept these, you will never develop as a poker player.

                  The fact is that at any given time there are over a quarter of a million players playing on over 50,000 tables at Pokerstars so whether it is a freeroll, low limit cash, high limit cash, SNGs small or huge buy ins, or MTTs with 10,000 players plus for a 1.10$ buyin or a 215$ buyin, there a humungous amount of players who get pooped upon from a great height by the run of the cards. Winning, even average players, accept it and move onto the next hand because they understand you can always be beaten unless you have the absolute nuts; players who expect that the best hand should hold from pre, the flop or the turn, every single time for them cry out in disgust that it is rigged against them.

                  I am by no means a winning player; I lose patience and self control and play really silly when I know I should fold; it is not the cards that beat me nor the other players, it is myself!!!! I think i can deny the odds or probabilities, I think I can slow play my set on the turn with three clubs on the board and it should not hit, I give people the odds to call, I bet size incorrectly, I make all manner of mistakes, and sometimes a little voice says "rigged" but if i am honest i know it is just my bad poker, and if I refuse to see that then it will continue to be bad and I should give up.

                  Pokerstars spent a huge amount of effort and money showing that it is all above board, they are professionally and impartially audited, numerous players show stats on their hands all over the internet showing that everything runs to normal probability and mathematics.

                  Now you can choose to believe that, or you can can choose to believe those that say it is rigged. Type it into google and some guy will ask you to give him 200$ to beat the system cos he knows the secret of the logarithms, type the same site into google and you will see 100,000's complaints on people being scammed by those that know it is rigged.

                  No one and I mean no one has been able to present any data that says anything other than that the Pokerstars RNG is straight down the line. Now if anyone can provide anything more than pure supposition, "I know this or I know that", provide proof, because proof is a logical and provable concept, then really they are only wasting not just my time, your time, the site's time, but everybody elses time that is coming here to learn to play and enjoy poker.

                  Cheers,

                  TC
                  same typical answer full of denial that Trumpinjoe had but with a lot more fluff added to keep yourself convinced and to also convince the masses that there can never be anything ever wrong with anything pokerstars does or has done or will ever do...so i will check your typical answer with a LOL and raise your denial with a big fat whatever

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well Derty, if you knew me, or were actually party to any of my previous postings, you would know that I am one of the biggest critics of both PSO and Pokerstars, and I have never been backward in expressing that opinion. Therefore, your assertion that I am protecting PSO or Pokerstars, is not only an invalid argument but also a fallacy; but we will not get into an argument about philosophy or logic. We will keep it simple

                    I go all in against your big fat whatever and ask you to prove it If you are unable to even attempt to do so then I believe I have won the argument and take all your chips

                    QED

                    TC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sigh... here we go again..

                      Originally posted by dertymcgerty View Post
                      so they come up with words like "variance" and tell you "studies" have been done on this subject
                      Have you ever studied statistics at all? Do you have ANY understanding of statistics? "Variance" was not invented to explain away poker results that some people find surprising, the concept has been around for a very long time.

                      What about computer science and pseudo random number generation? Thought not..

                      If you are so convinced do some research and write a paper on what you find. See if you can get a peer reviewed journal to publish it. If you are correct you will probably find a lot of lucrative and interesting job offers coming your way. Good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also while I accept that bugs in software are of course possible. I do not accept that there is a bug in the RNG that causes Aces on the river or any other anomaly.

                        The statistical (there's that word again) significance of analysis done on hands produced by it is too high.

                        trumpinjoe is correct. Our brains are wired to remember times when we feel that we were hard done by more than others. Try to understand that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by topthecat View Post
                          Well Derty, if you knew me, or were actually party to any of my previous postings, you would know that I am one of the biggest critics of both PSO and Pokerstars, and I have never been backward in expressing that opinion. Therefore, your assertion that I am protecting PSO or Pokerstars, is not only an invalid argument but also a fallacy; but we will not get into an argument about philosophy or logic. We will keep it simple

                          I go all in against your big fat whatever and ask you to prove it If you are unable to even attempt to do so then I believe I have won the argument and take all your chips

                          QED

                          TC
                          You can try insulting me with your wit all you want, I wont be losing any sleep over it .Not going to bother with this site anymore, complete waste of time and energy at this point, and I am sure a great deal of regular members including yourself will be glad I have chosen to finally do this.

                          Best of luck and Goodbye.

                          Derty

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't let the door hit ya where the good LORD split ya.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Darn you guys, you just keep scaring away the fishies!!

                              Bracelet Winner


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