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Instant tilt

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  • Instant tilt

    Does anyone else suffer from this kind of instant tilt syndrome?

    All night (for 7 hours), I folded all aces with 9 and under because I don't like low kickers. I had been avoiding going all in the whole game too. I was trying hard not to wreck my game in the usual "all in" way. All went well until this one hand. I was trying to buy the blinds with the raise. The caller was playing tight and folding losing hands. I knew this at the time. So my decision after his reraise makes absolutely no sense. It wasn't a bluff. I knew he had a hand. I knew my hand was weak. It's obvious to anyone this is a failed blind steal and an obvious fold. So why did I do this? All I can think is I wasn't happy about the failed steal, had him on KK and tried to hit the A. Even so, why go all in trying that? Makes no sense at all.

    I couldn't sleep after this one because it was so stupid. So maybe it will stick in my mind and prevent such a silly move next time. I was just wondering if other people did this and how you manage to prevent it or stop yourself going all in instantly without thinking properly.

    PokerStars Hand #197733551346: Tournament #2544924011, $9.80+$1.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXII (12500/25000) - 2019/03/04 1:02:45 WET [2019/03/03 20:02:45 ET]
    Table '2544924011 183' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: Little Kraut (1201262 in chips)
    Seat 2: borchardt007 (284611 in chips)
    Seat 3: Nrocky777 (418375 in chips)
    Seat 4: Vladi25182 (485675 in chips)
    Seat 5: OGPrime33 (509945 in chips)
    Seat 6: BayerFish (996750 in chips)
    Seat 7: K1_aKa.uMan (401678 in chips)
    Seat 8: mark2629 (139711 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 9: 19PAKEMON82 (480243 in chips)
    Little Kraut: posts the ante 2500
    borchardt007: posts the ante 2500
    Nrocky777: posts the ante 2500
    Vladi25182: posts the ante 2500
    OGPrime33: posts the ante 2500
    BayerFish: posts the ante 2500
    K1_aKa.uMan: posts the ante 2500
    mark2629: posts the ante 2500
    19PAKEMON82: posts the ante 2500
    K1_aKa.uMan: posts small blind 12500
    mark2629: posts big blind 25000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to OGPrime33
    19PAKEMON82: folds
    Little Kraut: folds
    borchardt007: folds
    Nrocky777: folds
    Vladi25182: folds
    OGPrime33: raises 25000 to 50000
    BayerFish: raises 160000 to 210000
    K1_aKa.uMan: folds
    mark2629: folds
    OGPrime33: raises 297445 to 507445 and is all-in
    BayerFish: calls 297445
    *** FLOP ***
    *** TURN ***
    *** RIVER ***
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    OGPrime33: shows (a pair of Aces)
    BayerFish: shows (three of a kind, Queens)
    BayerFish collected 1074890 from pot
    OGPrime33 finished the tournament in 341st place and received $77.42.
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 1074890 | Rake 0
    Seat 1: Little Kraut folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: borchardt007 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Nrocky777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: Vladi25182 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: OGPrime33 showed and lost with a pair of Aces
    Seat 6: BayerFish (button) showed and won (1074890) with three of a kind, Queens
    Seat 7: K1_aKa.uMan (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 8: mark2629 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 9: 19PAKEMON82 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

  • #2
    Two things come to mind , how do you respond to being 3 bet do you take it personally are you not making the correct decision where this happens other times , could be a pattern, also after playing for seven hours how was you feeling , were you getting tired , had you prepared properly for a long tournament ?


    • #3

      It's not a failed steal. We're not in a steal position, so it's a value-open. On this stack size, I'm not even opening it. We are on a re-steal stack sizing, so the best play we can make is to shove over an open by someone.. and A4s is a good hand to do that with, as it has the ace blocker.

      folding all aces under a 9 kicker IS a problem... if we are in early position, it's fine, but if we ARE in late position or are in the blinds facing a loose opp that opened first, those hands can absolutely be raises.

      Are you running a tracker and if so, what stats were you playing for the tourney. I'm guessing you're way, way too tight. We want to be somewhere near a 20 VPIP (putting chips in 20% of pots voluntarily), a 16 PFR (16% of those being a raise preflop) and a 3-bet % of about 7-8%. I'm guessing you're way underneath these and missing spots.

      John (JWK24)

      6 Time Bracelet Winner

      Online Poker League
      Can you win the leaderboard?


      • #4
        Originally posted by 73REX73 View Post
        Two things come to mind , how do you respond to being 3 bet do you take it personally are you not making the correct decision where this happens other times , could be a pattern, also after playing for seven hours how was you feeling , were you getting tired , had you prepared properly for a long tournament ?
        At times I can take it personal if a player keeps doing it but this player was folding everything. I think I was a little tired. I hadn't planned to play that long either. I'm not sure how to prepare to play for a long time. I guess it's like sports where you need good nutrition and periods of mental rest along the way? How do you prepare for a long tourny? Also, it was more than 7 hours. I had been playing for over 12 hours in total, through the day. It's quite possible my little meltdown was due to mental fatiuge. I'll think of ways I can improve this next time and hopefully keep my control longer.

        Hello John. I don't use any trackers or software to track play. Where do I find these? Any links directing me the right way would be helpful and appreciated.

        I think you're right there too. I played that tourny really tight. I understand what you're saying about folding the aces being a problem. No doubt I missed opportuities doing that but on the flip side it worked for me. It kept me in the game longer than games when I play them. I see how they can be used in late position but once called I really don't like trying to play with them through flop etc. I'm new to all these intricate aspects of the game. Truth be known I don't really understand them too well but with a bit of persistence and work I'll get there.

        Once I get this tracker software I'll track a game and find areas I can improve.

        Thanks for the replies


        • #5

          The two most common trackers are PokerTracker4 and HoldemManager2. Which someone may want to use is personal preference and I use PT4. These tools are invaluable for being able to analyze our plays and help to plug leaks in our game.

          When I'm playing long touneys (do all the time live and some online). Preparing for them is mandatory. Be rested and ready to go, make sure I have a good meal beforehand and make sure I take breaks throughout it. I normally walk the 5 minute breaks online and take the full 15-20 min breaks when playing live. I also make sure that I don't play for longer than 2 hrs in a row without taking a break.. and prefer taking breaks sooner than every 2 hrs.

          John (JWK24)

          P.S. You also can't make anything at the tables personal.. if you do, you're on tilt and need to work on your mental game.

          6 Time Bracelet Winner

          Online Poker League
          Can you win the leaderboard?


          • #6
            Thanks John.

            I downloaded PT4.

            I'm with you on the mental game needing work. I'm on it. I have to learn to catch myself doing it and correct that.

            My game plan for the breaks so far, if you can call it that, is to make a coffee and play the piano until I hear the beep. That's what I've been doing.

            I've just written down a plan to prepare for a long game. The more I think about it the deeper it gets. How far can you take prep to increase mental apptitude and endurance? It's a deep hole that. I'm going to take your advice and eat well before and during. I'll get some exersise during breaks too. If I'm playing a long one I'll make sure not to play for the hours leading up to it. Hopefully I'll start fresher and keep it together longer. I think on the next game going into AM I'll sleep later into the day so I'm not as tired at the end. I'll make these changes and use Sunday Storms as a benchmark. Every weekend I'll treat that one like the holy grail and aim for the final table as a goal.

            Thanks for helping me.


            • #7

              For working on your mental game, the two best books I know of are Elements of Poker by Tommy Angelo and The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler. Any of the books by Dr Patricia Cardner (Positive Poker was the last of her's that I read) are good too.

              John (JWK24)

              6 Time Bracelet Winner

              Online Poker League
              Can you win the leaderboard?


              • #8
                Thank you for those recommendations. I'll read those.

                I thought I'd come and show you the numbers I found for the tourny. I need a glossary so I can figure out what all the abbreviations are.

                Here are those stats you talked about previously.

                Hands: 337
                XPIP: 22.75
                PFR: 8.79
                Total AFq: 46.51
                WTSD%: 35.94
                WSD: 69.57


                • #9

                  22% of hands is ok... but if you play that many, you're limping way too much. You'd want to have your PFR be in the 17-18% range. so you're calling, instead of raising, almost 2 of every 3 times you play a hand... that needs to be basically 8-9 raises for every 10 hands played. I'd guess you only re-raised everyone probably 2-3% of the time based on these.. which is a big problem, because it means you are only 3-betting your big hands... so anyone that is observant should never give you a chip if you do so.

                  WSD - win at showdown.. almost 70% is way high. That means we're folding way too many rivers. That should be in the 55% range.

                  John (JWK24)

                  6 Time Bracelet Winner

                  Online Poker League
                  Can you win the leaderboard?


                  • #10
                    You might want to check out Elliot Roes free podcast for tips on preparation and you will see his products , but the podcasts are free so I would start with the podcasts .


                    • #11
                      Thanks Rex. I listened to some of those last night. They reminded me of a TEDX lecture where the fella helped pro sports people to change their mindset through breathing differently. Apparently mindset starts with physiology which then effects emotion and is reflected in results. He hooked someone up to a EEG and had them breath differently. Then you could see on the EEG machine how it was effecting physiology. I had a look to see if I could find it but its evading me for now. What Elliot Roe says makes sense. Lets hope some of it sinks in for me.

                      John, I'm confused. If I got this right I should be raising more around late position but I'm not sure what hand range I should be raising with. I went back through yesterdays games in PT4. A lot of winning hands were PFRs which never went to flop. I can see how it's profitable in this tracker information. So the purposes of more PFRs are to throw off the other players judgement of my hands and also to stack more chips in the long run through other players folding? Have I got this right? I'll try to increase this % and loosen my raising range in later positions.

                      Also I don't understand why my wins at showdown should be lower. If I'm beat and the bets are telling me that I'll fold and cut my losses, is this a mistake? No doubt some of them are bluffing me but if their bets match the cards and possible hands then how can I keep playing the hand when I'm up around 80% sure I'm beat? Do that many people really bluff that I can afford to call or raise that many more rivers with the weak hands? I can't get my head around the benefits of seeing more rivers. My mind is telling me it will cost me chips. If I'm not confident my hand has a good chance of winning how can I continue to put more chips in? It feels like I'm just giving chips away. I can't understand the logic to this one.


                      • #12

                        If we raise preflop, we have 2 ways to win the hand.. by the opp folding or by having the winning hand in the end. If we call, we can't win by everyone else folding.
                        To get to the 20ish% overall, we want to be tighter in early position (closer to 10%) and progressively wider until we get to the button (which would be the highest at say 30%... if it folds to my button, I'm closer to 45-50% and against the right opps in the blinds.. if they fold too often, I raise before I look at my cards). The reason for more on the button is that we are IN position postflop, so we have an advantage, so we can outplay other players due to it.

                        The normal reason for someone calling too much, is that they call way, way too much from the blinds (because it looks cheaper).. when in reality, these are the worst table positions postflop, so it may be cheap preflop to call, but it's a huge chip leak postflop, to call with marginal junk from them.

                        The reason that your win at showdown should be lower.. this means we're folding the best hand way too often when we have say 2nd or 3rd pair. Yes, we'll be behind some of the times, but in a number of cases, we will also have the best hand. Using your example, if you are 80% sure you're beat by the opp's range (not just one hand, we need to look at their entire range).. then we should be calling 20% of the time in this spot, as that's how often we are ahead. I'd bet you're folding 100% of the time here, which is a mistake, as we are taking 20% of the chips in the pot and throwing them out of the window.

                        We do want to be selective about who we do this against though.. against a loose, aggressive player, we should be calling way more than 20% of the time, as we'll be ahead more.. but against a nit, that 80% number may be closer to 90-95%, so we should almost never call.

                        John (JWK24)


                        6 Time Bracelet Winner

                        Online Poker League
                        Can you win the leaderboard?


                        • #13
                          That's perfectly explained. I understand that now. I appreciate you taking the time to explain that for me.

                          I'll practice extending my range as my position moves around the table. Sounds like a sound plan to me. Probably easier said than done but I'll try.

                          I've played 50 hands during this current game. I'm currently at VPIP - 21%. PFR- 13% 3bet-8%. Currently with double the chips of everyone else at the table. So far so good. Even though it's a small sample of hands I'm definitely winning more. I've been more aggressive betting through the river and turn too. It's quite obvious over 50 hands that I'm winning much more and I'm getting better reads. making it easier to make a better decision on the rivers. Feels like progress.

                          It wasn't quite 100% but I see your point . Sometimes I catch people out nice and know they're trying to play me, or my outs are so many that the odds I'm getting to call are good. I understand what you've said there though. That makes perfect sense.

                          I'll try and put all this into practice now. Thanks John.


                          • #14

                            Don't be over-aggro postflop.. as that is one thing that anyone using a tracker will pick up on really easily. We want to only be continuing about 45-60% of the time on the flop, then only about half the time on the turn. If you're c-betting the flop more than this, you're bluffing too often and will lose a LOT of chips to a player that is aware of it... because you're just going to blast off your stack.

                            John (JWK24)

                            6 Time Bracelet Winner

                            Online Poker League
                            Can you win the leaderboard?


                            • #15
                              Good call. At 170 hands my Cbet is 78%. It's hardly safe. I think 50% would be better. My pots won at showdown is 100%. That one went the wrong way. Pots won without showdown 18, with showdown 8. One thing at a time I guess. My VPIP is 23 and PRF 14 so that's good. I'm changing my range as the button goes around like you said. So far it's all working better.. 11th of 75 left. Trying to avoid betting right now. It's that stage where every hand someone is all in.



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