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  • Bankroll Builder

    Hi!

    Rasmus from Norway here.

    I was wondering if I qualify for the bankroll builder program?

    Ive been doing some "light" reading and Im eager to learn and get in to the game, for the long haul .

  • #2
    Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
    I was wondering if I qualify for the bankroll builder program?
    Hi SasoriKishi, You are eligible for the Bankroll Builder promotion, good job! Hot Tip#1 : Bookmark this page so that you'll find it easily in the future First Step First up please watch the following video and pay special attention to the tips on retriving and saving your hand history from PokerStars. This will be important for the rest of your promotional journey.
    Let me know as soon as you've had a chance to watch it. Cheers, Raiser umbup:

    Comment


    • #3
      Done !
      Last edited by SasoriKishi; Sun Feb 24, 2013, 05:11 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
        Done !
        Brilliant, now that you have watched the video you now know how to save hand histories from both real and play money games Next Step Next up play some 9-handed full-ring play money tables. Make sure the tables have no empty seats. Find a hand that caused you difficulty or cost you chips and using the hand replayer post it here in the Forum. Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.
        Once you've posted your hand we will analyse it for you and then continue on from there. Raiser umbup:

        Comment


        • #5
          I raised because of so many limpers, and the fact that I was in position. I figured I could weaken the herd and still be strong if I hit the flop. On the flop there were two raises, but very small raises, so I figured nobody hit the flop there, as trip jacks was unlikely, and as the preflop raiser I could play this like a medium/high pocket pair in case someone hit the deuce. On the turn the bets were so ridicolously small that I figured I had to call, as paying 20 into a pot that size would in my mind more often that not give me the best hand with A high, even with only 6% to hit my ace on the river, meaning that its a good investment. On the river, both came with small bets, which I took to mean nobody hit their king, so I could represent either a KQ type hand or KK/AA, as the hand history went, and the passive betting on the turn and the river, so I bet about 60% of the pot I think. I could have checked it down, but someone could have a small pair even though it was unlikely. Also, I felt like it was a good idea to avoid showing my hand there. At this point, a lot of people were limping, and also calling frequently preflop. I figured with suited connectors, the raise to 18 was worth the call since I figured to have at least 3 more players in the pot, giving me what I in my mind (may not be true) assume is good value for the chance to hit the flop. I flop top two pair, and the pot is 75, and villain5 bets ridicolously small. 25 in to the pot. Three callers, with one to act behind me. I assume I have the best hand at this point, and I bet about 75% of the pot I think, with one to act after me. With the flushdraw out there, I didnt want them to draw cheaply, effectively giving them bad potodds to draw to their flush, which I figure is about a 19% chance to hit on the turn. I should have just gone all in here, as I only have 83 chips left. The player on the button folds, and the initial raiser calls my bet. The player after him calls all in. The turn is a 5, putting the straight out there. Villain5 raises 75, and I raise my last 83, and he calls. The river is a 5 of hearts, completing the flushdraw and turns out Villain5 has K6h for the flush and that he had the straight on the turn. Theres a minraise (2BB) before me and Im in the CO with Q5d. I figure this is an easy call, hoping for more people to enter the pot so I can see a cheap flop and see if I hit. Villain5 raises to 25. One caller and the initial raiser of 2BB goes all in. I fold. Im in the BB with A2o. UTG raises to 2BB, Villain5 raises to 10. Villain6, Villain8 and the SB call. I call the 10, as calling 8 in to a pot of 49, with one to act behind me who is likely to join the party for a total of 67, I figured was a good idea, even if hitting anything here was a long shot, I was getting what... 1:6 on my money. Flop comes 584. Two clubs. Villain5 raises 40, Villain6 calls. At this point I figure I have to put 40 in a pot of 143, with potentially taking at least one players stack if I hit my draw (349 left in both players stacks), and while having a gutshot isnt exactly a strong draw, I figured hitting an ace might also win the pot since the entire table has played loose so far. So basically I have 7 outs for about 15% chance to hit it on the turn. 40 for potentially 500 is what... roughly 10:1 odds, so I figure its a good call. Villain3 folds after me. Flop is a 7d, meaning that Im not really good anymore. Any 6 beats me, and a K6 or even J6 is easily within both players range as far as Ive been able to tell at this point. I check. Villain5 bets 80, Villain3 calls. I fold. In this hand Im the SB with 45h. Villain5 raises to 10, and Villain6 3bets to 18. Its folded to me and I figure if Villain6 has a big pair, my 45h could be good to take his entire stack if I hit the flop, and I was fairly certain Villain5 would call, as he had been calling a lot with a wide range so far in the game. Villains 3 and 6 both call after me. Flop comes K8Q. One heart, two diamonds. I check, Villain3 raises 10, gets called around to me and at this point I figure paying what most likely is 30 more (10 more on the turn, 10 more on the river, most likely)to hit a backdoor flush could be worth it. Turn is another queen, no heart, so when the 10chip bet comes to me again I fold. No use putting more money in at all, theres 0% chance I can win this now. Thoughts on the plays? Help? Corrections? What am I doing bad, what am I doing right? Appreciate it greatly edit: sorry for the number of hands, but I'm curious edit2: By the way, I have already completed the basics, cashgame, STT and MTT main quizes, and the smaller quizes in each of the categories. If thats relevant.
          Last edited by SasoriKishi; Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:26 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
            edit: sorry for the number of hands, but I'm curious
            Hi SasoriKishi, Thanks for posting these hands for review. I have asked one of the hand analysers to take a look at them for you and offer some feedback. He should do this later today and once he does we can continue on from there. Cheers, Raiser umbup:

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi SasoriKishi

              First hand A8o: Your thought process seems ok. Nice job with this particular hand. However, there are two points worth noting. Firstly, bluffing a single opponent is easier than bluffing multiple opponents. The odds that someone caught a piece of the board increases with each additional player in the hand. Secondly, at 2NL and especially at play money tables, many bad players just don't fold. They will call down with bottom pair or a missed AK, AQ type of hand. This makes bluffing hard since you very often will actually have to have the best hand at showdown. Personally, I never bluff at 2NL, I can semi-bluff with draws etc. I usually play good starting hands and wait until I flop a strong hand such as a set or better before getting involved in large pots.

              Second hand 78s: At play money you probably do have good enough implied odds to call the bet preflop. I strongly suggest just folding in these spots when you get to real money. Calling will cost you money in the long run.

              Furthermore, with suited connectors we want to flop a strong flush draw or straight draw. Flopping a pair or even two pair as in this case can be dangerous. It often results in our having the second best hand. As played, you bet too much on the flop, espcially with respect to your stack size. Normally I suggest raising 3x the original raise plus 1x for each caller. So, about 125. This would have left you with enough for a final significant bet on the turn.

              Third hand Q5s: This hand is just too weak to play. There are not many flops that can help you. Your cards are not connected, you are not drawing to the nut flush and if you flop a pair, you may get out kicked. Hands like this are very hard to play post flop. Far too often they result in us winning small pots or losing big ones. Just fold. Folding to the reraise was your only good option.

              Fourth hand A2o: This is similar to the previous hand. With A2o and so much action before you, you will have a tough time post flop. The only good flop for you would be 345, but even then you are at the low end of the straight. A2 can be playable if the btn or sb opens, but not in this spot with a large raise and several callers. Calling preflop is costing you money.

              Fifth hand 45s: You are right in that suited connectors, Axs and small pairs have the potiental to stack opponents with AA KK type hands. We call these hands speculative hands. However, one of the important aspects of playing speculative hands is seeing the flop cheap. Here you are facing a 3-bet from early position. You will not win often enough to make calling here profitable. Folding preflop would have been best. Definately fold on the flop since you missed. On a side note, it is a good general rule to fold to 3-bets when you are going to be out of position post flop. This means sometimes folding hands as strong as JJ or QQ.

              All in all, you seem to be on the right track. Im happy that you are putting your villain's on a range of hands. However, it does seem that you are playing too many hands, especially when facing large preflop bets. Sticking to better starting hands and situations will make playing post flop easier.

              GL and have fun at the tables!

              Roland GTX

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks, yeah that all makes sense. Appreciate the feedback. I guess potodds and EV etc will come later on, as I clearly have no idea what I'm doing atm.

                What's the next step from here ?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
                  What's the next step from here ?
                  Hi SasoriKishi, Next Step Now we want to get you playing on the real money tables. Next up, and spend some time on this one , study the Poker Basic Course and take the basic assessment quiz at the end of that course. Once you have passed this quiz, please let us know and your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours of passing it and notifying us. Remember you can earn up to a total of $8 with this promotion. Use this first buy-in to then play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables only on PokerStars. Post back here when you get your first buy-in and start playing these games and we'll continue on from there. Raiser umbup:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ive already done all of the courses, including chapter tests and the assessment quizes.

                    I did them before I knew about the bankroll builder program, unfortunately.

                    Does this pose a problem going further into this program?


                    edit:

                    A few questions about the hands.

                    Second hand 78s: At play money you probably do have good enough implied odds to call the bet preflop. I strongly suggest just folding in these spots when you get to real money. Calling will cost you money in the long run.
                    Is this because of the likelyhood of several callers, or because of the size of the bet I called?
                    Or because in real money microstakes the hands that raise and call preflop are likely to be better starting hands generally?

                    Furthermore, with suited connectors we want to flop a strong flush draw or straight draw. Flopping a pair or even two pair as in this case can be dangerous. It often results in our having the second best hand.
                    Two pair I can see as being weak, but a flush seems fairly strong in my uneducated mind. The way I figure it, the chance of someone else having a flush that beats mine seems so small.
                    For instance youre facing a raise to 3BB and a call preflop in late position, the chance of them having a strong qualifying hand that is also suited seems to be so low that calling might be worth it in the long run?

                    No good?

                    As played, you bet too much on the flop, espcially with respect to your stack size. Normally I suggest raising 3x the original raise plus 1x for each caller. So, about 125. This would have left you with enough for a final significant bet on the turn.
                    I agree, overbetting the pot makes no sense. I was just forced to think fast and didnt want to let them draw cheaply.
                    Would a bet the size of 125 give anyone drawing bad enough odds in that spot?

                    Again; appreciate your help, I guess Im too confused at the moment.

                    My gameplan is really just to go through this course, and start playing quite "by the book" 2NL for a good 50k+ hands, then reevaluating my play to find and remove leaks.
                    Hopefully during this time a lot of things that at the moment seem very hard to do fast will be second nature and far easier to make a decision on, freeing my mind up to analyze other players and starting on that part of growth.

                    For the moment the focus is really the basics. Pure basics. Position, hand selection, aggression, decisiveness, betsizing.

                    Cant wait to get in there and learn.
                    Last edited by SasoriKishi; Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:48 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
                      Does this pose a problem going further into this program?
                      It will take a little longer for the system to update this info, please check back this time tomorrow for the next step. Cheers, Raiser umbup:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Allright, what comes next ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
                          Allright, what comes next ?
                          Hi SasoriKishi, You've passed the basics quiz, congrats on that! Your first buy-in will be credited into your account within 24 hours. Use this first buy-in to then play ONLY the 1/2 cent full ring real money tables only on PokerStars. Playing any other game format will disqualify you from being able to obtain further buy-ins through this promotion. Post back here when you get your first buy-in and start playing these games, along with a hand that you had problems, or that cost you money, while playing with this buy-in. For beginners it's not advised to play short handed tables, so if 2/3 seats become empty it's a good idea to stand up also. As you become better at ranging opponents and playing an aggressive game you will feel more comfortable playing short handed tables but for now try to stick to the full ones. Good luck! Raiser umbup:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SasoriKishi View Post
                            Ive already done all of the courses, including chapter tests and the assessment quizes. I did them before I knew about the bankroll builder program, unfortunately. Does this pose a problem going further into this program? edit: A few questions about the hands. Is this because of the likelyhood of several callers, or because of the size of the bet I called? Or because in real money microstakes the hands that raise and call preflop are likely to be better starting hands generally? Two pair I can see as being weak, but a flush seems fairly strong in my uneducated mind. The way I figure it, the chance of someone else having a flush that beats mine seems so small. For instance youre facing a raise to 3BB and a call preflop in late position, the chance of them having a strong qualifying hand that is also suited seems to be so low that calling might be worth it in the long run? No good? I agree, overbetting the pot makes no sense. I was just forced to think fast and didnt want to let them draw cheaply. Would a bet the size of 125 give anyone drawing bad enough odds in that spot? Again; appreciate your help, I guess Im too confused at the moment. My gameplan is really just to go through this course, and start playing quite "by the book" 2NL for a good 50k+ hands, then reevaluating my play to find and remove leaks. Hopefully during this time a lot of things that at the moment seem very hard to do fast will be second nature and far easier to make a decision on, freeing my mind up to analyze other players and starting on that part of growth. For the moment the focus is really the basics. Pure basics. Position, hand selection, aggression, decisiveness, betsizing. Cant wait to get in there and learn.
                            Halla! I'm thrilled to see you are thinking and rethinking about these spots. You are on the right trackumbup: Your questions all come from the 78s hand. When the short stack moves all in preflop. You need to pay 6bb to continue. That is double a normal bet size. This is getting expensive for playing fairly low suited connectors. At real money, as you said, people will open with stronger hands than you encounter at play money. However, the real threat at real money is due to your position. There are five players left to act after you call the 12 chip all in. The likelyhood of one of these players reraising is pretty large in a real money game. We want to avoid playing speculative hands in spots like this because either we are forced to fold, or forced to pay so much to continue that we are no longer getting good enough odds. At play money, it is much more likely that everyone passively continues with the hand by just calling. Therefore, I think you are good to call here, but would advise folding in the same spot at 2NL. In general, with speculative hands (suited connectors, small pairs and Axs), we want to see the flop as cheaply as possible and against as many opponents as possible. Both of these factors increase our implied odds. We will not hit a strong flop often, but in these spots we are likely to win a big pot when we do. You flopped top two pair, which is good. It rates to be the best hand now. However, you are not drawing to a flush or a straight. You have about a 18% chance of making a full house by the river though. The board is very connected offering straight and flush draws. My point was simply not to overplay your hand in these spots, especially if you only had one pair. This is a common leak for beginners. In general, with speculative hands, you are shooting for a set, straight or flush, not pairing the board. Your large betsize made me think that you may have overvalued your hand. Betsizing on the flop: If you flop a flush draw, you have 9 outs to make your flush. The rule of 2 and 4 means you have about 36% chance of hitting by the river. In other words, you will make your flush a third of the time. Now, a standard c-bet is half the pot which would give you 2:1 odds. This means you need to make your flush a third of the time to profitably continue with the hand. The odds are pretty much equal. Therefore, when facing a board such as in the 78s hand that offers draws. We need to bet more than half the pot in order to give poor odds to anyone chasing. Usually I recommend about 70%. In this actual hand, there was a raise of 25 and two callers when the action got to you. When reraising I suggest 3x the original raise, plus 1x for each caller. This gives us the 125 chips I stated. The pot at that time was 150. Raising to 125 fills the standard for rerasing and the standard for giving poor odds to anyone drawing. 125 is 83% of 150. Just say the word if this is still unclear GL! Roland GTX (writing to you from Oslo)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No that makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying .

                              I was folding if i only flopped a pair, but top two at that point i felt was strong enough to bet. My goal was really a low straight or flush draw.

                              A question about the bet size: 125 is 83% of 150, but the opponent then has to call 125 to a pot of 275, which is 45%... Yeah that works too.
                              But is my thinking correct? The potodds come from the pot including my bet, not the pot as it stands before my bet?

                              When playing suited connectors, when is it mathematically correct to play? What criteria must be fulfilled to justify small suited connectors like 56s.

                              Also, what about high nonconnected suited cards, like Q5s? Talking solely about seeing a flop purely for a high flush, not pairing the queen.

                              I figure there's a low chance of someone having my suit on two holecards that they will play in playmoney, so wouldn't a flush of any cards win quite often? And if so, should i always play suited cards in late position or...?

                              Sorry if these are horrid obvious questions, Im just curious :P

                              Youre in Oslo, btw? Used to live there, still go there sometimes to visit my brother.


                              edit: is there any like... discount offered for PSO/PokerStars members on Holdem Manager 2, btw? I figured Id ask before purchasing it .
                              Last edited by SasoriKishi; Fri Mar 01, 2013, 01:48 AM.

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