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My message disappeared, repost of Poker is Dead

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  • My message disappeared, repost of Poker is Dead

    The game has been taken over by a bunch of thieves and gamblers. There is no place left to learn, practice, play with skill, and improve your game. It isn't enjoyable for me any longer. If you win a prize, bully for you. If I didn't see you play, I assume you played donk with a HUD and have no clue how to actually play.

    The game is no fun because it is infected with a donk / gambler mentality. I have better things to spend my money on (a Starbucks, for example - the games here are just that much fun) and when my money's here is gone, so am I. I'm sure everyone could care less what I think or about my rant, but I am sorry the game is dead. It was once fun and I enjoyed it once.

    This has done at least as much, if not more, than any other site, to spoil a game that was once a way to have a few moments of diversion, relaxation, and even interesting fun. Now it's just another place to gamble for $, and waste time, energy, and $. If a poker site ever comes up with a way to create a place for people to actually play poker instead of simpley gamble and donk, I might try it. In the meanwhile, this is just a stupid waste of time and money. I am sorry to see that the women's league has fallen victim. I had high hopes. And now (as soon as my funds are done), I'm going back to sewing. I hope others will consider whether they might enjoy something else as well, and whether there is some other place or activity that we might share and enjoy learning together.

    For those of you who actually really play the game: thank you. I have enjoyed your company, the games we've played, and, I will miss you, and a place to play a game with other folks and unwind, even if it was on the other side of my computer monitor. However, as much as I've enjoyed some of it, after a long day and a long week in a difficult job, a game of donk just doesn’t work for me, so I find I have to forgo your company. I am sorry for that loss.

    Sorry. I’m not really a whack job. I’m just really disappointed to have to finally forgo a pastime I once hoped to enjoy. Perhaps we will meet in a quilting circle, a drumming circle, or at the market, or some place that isn’t such a time suck with nothing to show. Maybe we can strike up a real poker game over a picnic someday and discover a bit of fun.

    In the meanwhile, good luck to you since thise seems to be almost entirely about luck.

    Last edited by Paganini11; Sat Oct 06, 2012, 08:10 AM.

  • #2
    I'm sorry to hear this, I've enjoyed playing against you. While I understand how you feel, think about "donks" for a minute. These are the players that you WILL BEAT most of the time when you get your money in with the best of it. When you are having a run of suck-outs that go against you, it's very easy to get discouraged.

    I've had my share of downswings, when it seems that no matter how you play the worst hand wins. Take a break, study the game and figure out how to exploit the gamblers. Tighten up your range against them and wait for a good hand where you know you're ahead, then take them to value town.

    I loaded three years worth of hands into a HUD, and the numbers came out pretty much where they should based on the mathematical odds, and others here have done the same. When your in that slump it can be hard to beleive that better play wins in the long run, but it really is true.

    Wishing you every success in all of your future endeavours, whatever they may be.

    Bracelet Winner


    • #3
      Thank you Joy.

      I appreciate you taking a moment to write. I've enjoyed playing with you as well. I will think about your suggestiona.

      You are right to get a lot of chips against them in some situations, and this pays. It's where I've done well. Thank you for the advice and for reminding me. It's just hat a lot of the time, they spoil the game early on, for me, which is, in part, impatience on my part, I suppose. And, when I get the chips in and win, it just feels like I won a gamble mostly. It doesn't often feel like a good play.

      If I get passed this irritation to the point I continue to have an interest in playing, you will see me around. If not, look for my quilt at the local fair.

      This overbet stuff, for me, ... It just feels like pure gambling. It's just, if you can outlast the donks and they haven't cornered all the chips, then you might have an hour or so of actual game play. Then I feel like I've had a bit of fun. But, the 1.5 hour of donk / gamble that preceeds that ... for me, there is just no fun in that. So maybe this just isn't for me.

      Thanks for writing, Joy.
      Last edited by Paganini11; Sat Oct 06, 2012, 08:24 AM.


      • #4
        Hi Paganini11! I totally understand your frustration with the players that don't care about what they're doing and will play any two cards, at any time, or for any amount. With me, I'm in even worse shape right now, as I'm in the US, so I can only play the play money games and the lower the buy-ins and play money games, the more often you will encounter them. Especailly in the PM games, they have no care at all for anything... compared to me, someone that will play a play money tourney, the exact same way that I'd play a large buy-in cash live tournament. I don't care what the buy-in is, I want to go into every single game that I play with the same attitude and intensity.. so that I can know in every game that I gave it my best and that I tried my best to win it. I just played three play money 45-player sng's and I can guarantee you that I was going thru the exact same thought processes and reads that I will next Friday, the 12th, when I play in a $365 WSOP Circuit event. I have played against them in everything from an online freeroll (on both sites that I've ever played online at) and at every buy-in level live, which is from a $25 daily casino torunament in Las Vegas all the way up to a WSOP Circuit. In the circuit event last year, I had one player get to my table that was an alternate that finally got seated 3 hours into it. They lasted 4 hands?! I had one of them that would play any ace or any two suited cards and chase to the river, regardless, at my table in a $230 HPT tourney a little over a week ago. These types of players are everywhere and unfortunately... the only times that we remember them... are when we're ahead and they beat us. There are some ways that I can take advantage of players like that though, which I've learned over the years. I want to play much, much tighter against them, be as patient as possible (which a number of times agains them is NOT easy) and whenever I get a made hand, I want to value bet them as much as possible. They're still going to get lucky and outdraw me a given % of the time, but when I do win a hand against them, I will take a large number of chips from them. Getting chips against them will also allow me to be much, much more patient. They will eventually give all their chips away, I just hope I get a monster hand to be able to take them. Sometimes I won't get cards in a tourney and I basically won't be able to play a hand against them. I've had multiple league games where I have only played 1 or 2 hands in the 90-120 minutes that I've been in them. All of us also, unfortunately, will encounter variance runs, where we'll keep getting drawn out on, keep losing when we're large favorites and it will happen over and over and over. I'm a great example of this recently too. I've been playing blocks of 100 of the 45 player SNG's since Black Friday. Thru the first 600 of them, I was running at approximately 44% ITM and an ROI of just over 100%.... in comes the next set. This period, which lasted a couple months, I could only get ITM 28 times and had to win two of the last 10 games to not lose chips in them. These runs can last days or months or longer. I absolutely can guarantee that I didn't change a thing with that set of 100 games, compared to the ones before it... it's just the way the opps and cards worked out. Everyone from the smallest player to the largest pros go through these swings. When they happen, what we can do is to try and see if there are any leaks in our games... and learn to correct them and also to practice good bankroll management. We can also keep learning each and every time that we play, along with studying more about the game, in order to get to be a better player. Another key to playing is to NOT be results oriented (which took me a considerable amount of time to understand). I want to make the best decision at that given time and if I can do that.. it's all I can do as a poker player. After that, it's out of my hands. If you decide to continue playing poker, there are a number of us that are more than willing to help any of the members get to be better players. The live training sessions are a great way to learn more of how to deal with different player types or different situations. There are also a number of the recorded live training sessions in the library, from fundamentals and poker theory, to torunament reviews, to watching how the trainers deal with live game situations (as they'll play a tourney and take questions on the situations they run into). The hand analysis forums are also a great place to learn from. The hand analyzers will go thru a hand that has been played by the member and show what they think the best plays will be for a given situation. I know that over the years, I've picked up a number of things in them that I have incorporated into my game... and that as one of the tournament analyzers, I try to pass along to others whenever possible. Good luck with whatever decisions you decide to make.umbup: John (JWK24)

        6 Time Bracelet Winner


        • #5
          Thank you John and Joy

          Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Thinking about your observations and advice has considerably lowered my level of frustration. You're advice is sound and reminded me that when I play as you suggest, I do reasonably well, for the most part - or at least place well enough to look forward to another game and hope to place a little better then.

          I appreciated you both acknowledging my frustration. It allowed me remember I'm not the only one who finds the stategy frustrating sometimes and to think things over. It let me realize that if we all played with the same strategy and by the same books, that would be equally as "not fun" as the type of play I was complaining about in my initial post. You're are right.

          It's a part of the game, a way some people play, and it is beatable, which I know from experience. As John pointed out, once I got myself worked up about it, I was focused on the ones that get ahead of me and stay there. In reality, I usually outlast most of those players even if I don't get in the money.

          Thank you again.


          • #6
            Why not try joining the Drunk Tank ? There you can really enjoy a good game of poker without it being a Donkfest. umbup:
            3 Time Bracelet Winner


            • #7
              What is the Drunk Tank?

              I don't know what that is, Bill.



              • #8
                The Tank.. IMO, is the toughest play money home game on Poker Stars. If you'd like more info about it, both Joy and me are members and I'd be happy to talk to you about it by PM. I'm sure you'd recognize some of the members.

                John (JWK24)

                6 Time Bracelet Winner


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
                  The Tank.. IMO, is the toughest play money home game on Poker Stars.
                  I'll second that, great bunch of peeps too! Raiser umbup:



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