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Is this site riged?

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  • Is this site riged?

    Hi ladies and gents,


    I have to ask this question, is this site rigged?

    I ask because it seems 80% of the time I have QQ,KK and get shoved all in with someone who has an A with a kicker, the A always seems to hit.

    I know the hand frequency is a lot higher online but it seems a bit ridiculous. considering at best they only have 3 outs and they hit it every time....

    maybe its only me though.... but I doubt it.

  • #2
    No it is not.

    Get the free trial of Pokertracker 4 or holdem manager 2.

    Record all the hands over a month and you will see.

    this year in cash games I have had KK preflop 214 times and won 184 times (86%)


    Grade b
    Last edited by Grade b; Mon May 06, 2013, 12:49 AM.
    I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

    13 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      Thanks, I will download one of them and analyse my game some more.

      Comment


      • #4
        Beerfly first consider this: No matter how many hours you spend looking for evidence a poker site is rigged, you will not find any proof. You can try if you want. You might find some people claiming some strange stats, but none of it is ever going to be mathematically valid enough to constitute proof.

        Secondly, if PokerStars is rigged then a lot of sites must be in the exact same way because we all have similar experiences (good and bad) on multiple sites, with different software, owned by different companies, and regulated by different entities.

        Also, I read a thread recently on a different website (that I cannot post here sorry) that was about a live player trying to go pro at an Aussie casino. He ran insanely bad. His experience was at least as absurd as anything people have experienced online. It really is just the nature of the game of poker and the math behind it. Even great players can lose a lot for significant stretches of time. It's not likely, but it can and will happen (eventually).

        edit: Also, I would like to add that while PokerStars has a very good track record in the matter, not all sites are ran perfectly from a business perspective. You have to put your faith in a poker site when you deposit your hard earned money onto their site, and unfortunately some sites have made some extremely poor business decisions in the past and the present. Just look into Ultimate Bet, the original Full Tilt Poker, and currently sites like *cough* Lock *cough*. It is good to ask questions like the one you did, but as far as the way the cards fall all evidence points to the conclusion that nobody goes so far as rigging the deck.
        Last edited by RockerguyAA; Mon May 06, 2013, 01:21 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Beerfly69 View Post
          Thanks, I will download one of them and analyse my game some more.

          I lot of players feel this way, its human nature. I recently wrote about it in one of my blogs about ALWAYS having my aces cracked

          Grade b
          I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

          13 Time Bracelet Winner


          Comment


          • #6
            Just posting the most recent hand where the bigger stack has an UNREAL runner runner for the win. I had 5 of these today where the bigger stack won where he shouldn't have had a hope in hell.

            Random? Like Rocker said, it cannot be proven one way or the other.

            Copy and paste to have a look at the impossible..........

            http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...418_E1DF3348C7

            Random? You decide. It's your money.

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            • #7
              That flopped straight was unlucky but that would never happen to me when he raised you pre flop he basically said im well ahead of your 89s but you called anyway flopped a monster getting very lucky imo then he made his full house and hit his outs on 2 streets, yh he was very lucky but like i said i would of folded preflop.

              I don't know for sure but if you played 89s in the same situation pre flop im guessing even if you win a stack for every time you make the nuts on the flop or the best hand by showdown, i bet you would still make a loss in the long run for calling such a big bet pre flop.

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe you posted the wrong hand, Redletterman, but losing to a 2-outer that becomes a 10 outer is far from impossible. You got your money in very good (95% favourite) and lost to a suckout. You can't win them all.
                Runner-runner suckouts and 1-outers are tough to take. But these also happen in live poker. See Sandtrap's blog about his $3300 one-outer. Suckouts aren't just possible. They are expected to happen at a certain frequency over a large sample.
                Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Mon May 06, 2013, 02:34 PM.
                Bracelet Winner

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                • #9
                  I wondered the same thing during a particularly bad downswing. I decided to download PT4 beta, then I loaded 4 years worth of history into the tracker.

                  I found out that all of my win rates with premium hands were within a couple of percentage points of the expected average. However, when I just looked at 3 months,I was way below expected win rate. Bad runs will happen, just like good ones, but I truly believe that making the right decision consistently will result in a winning game.

                  Bracelet Winner


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                  • #10
                    the other thing to consider is why would it be rigged against you and in favour of those other people - what makes them special specifically? There're so many of them, they can't be the employees or affiliates. Even if it was rigged, the only way it could be rigged 'systematically' if it just always favoured one outers or whoever had the worst odds. But in that case the 'normal' maths of poker would never apply and you'd never win with good cards. Then all the people that study the maths would leave as they'd run out of money and the site would shut down due to no income. ;P

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay. Seems to me you guys (and gal) are missing a point or two. Firstly, this was not about me losing that hand. It was a response to the OP and a demonstration of what can happen. Also, it wasn't put up for people to analyze play. I could nit all day and take the odd shot against a big preflop raise and I'm still a nit.

                      What this wasn't about.....
                      Mike: Fold preflop all day or take one or two shots in 6 hours? It cost me a dollar to call and have him heads up; to see a flop and then make a decision. It is extremely rare for me to play 89 suited.
                      Joy: "....I truly believe that making the right decision consistently will result in a winning game." Yes. We've seen that said a thousand times here. Not disputing it.
                      Arty: What Boom does not show is how all cards are face up after the all in. When the Ace hit the turn I had already surrendered the hand to him as I felt in my gut (instinct derived from observation) he would pair the board 70% of the time to make his boat. Those are my stats and every response I get from others regarding those stats come with the same tired caveat: Your sample isn't large enough.
                      What the post was about:
                      Evoke: I never ever said the site was rigged. I failed to mention that I was the recipient of unreal wins that day as well as the loss posted. I recently won a tourney where I mopped up the final table by calling others' all ins pre when holding pkt fours or sixes against their pkt queens or aces. I'll post the final table of the 'On the Glass' tourney if anyone wants it and can tell me how to go about it.

                      All I've ever said regarding the RNG is there seems to be a flaw in there somewhere. It's not perfect. It's also not rigged. I just don't like coincidence. What I would like to see is someone (like Joy's analysis) do a 100,000 hand survey of win - loss rates on a (flopped) made hand low stack versus a big stack. I'm expecting 65% minimum in favor of the larger stack.

                      We can strive for perfection in any endeavor, and good on us for the attempt, but ultimately nothing is perfect. I'm fairly certain PS would never lay claim to a perfect RNG.

                      Cheers!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just think of this. If it was rigged it will get for sure known to the public one time and if it does this multi million dollar company called pokerstars can be bought very cheap afterwards (then I can even buy it ). Do u think they will even put that on risk? They make the most money the more people play because of the rake and does not have to care who wins the dollars which are in the middle of the table.
                        Bracelet Winner

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RedLetterman View Post
                          What I would like to see is someone (like Joy's analysis) do a 100,000 hand survey of win - loss rates on a (flopped) made hand low stack versus a big stack. I'm expecting 65% minimum in favor of the larger stack.
                          100,000 hands is far too small a sample. Would 290 million flops be better?
                          http://www.spadebidder.com/
                          Bracelet Winner

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ferdyr77 View Post
                            Just think of this. If it was rigged it will get for sure known to the public one time and if it does this multi million dollar company called pokerstars can be bought very cheap afterwards (then I can even buy it ). Do u think they will even put that on risk? They make the most money the more people play because of the rake and does not have to care who wins the dollars which are in the middle of the table.
                            Ferdyr - Never said it was rigged. Ever. In either post. Rigged implies motive, method and some sort of opportunity. BTW Thanks for the rake lesson. Had no idea that PS would actually lose money by eliminating players from a table. <---------- (sarcasm)

                            Artie- The 290 million hand posts inform me of my cognitive bias. I'll acknowledge that for now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @Arty

                              Interesting link that you posted there. Did you by any chance check out the credit for the primary hand history source and their website? It may well make you consider the veracity of the data

                              Cheers,

                              TC

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